1 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:05,510 welcome to tales from the rabbit hole 2 00:00:11,060 --> 00:00:08,010 I'm your host Mick West my guest today 3 00:00:13,910 --> 00:00:11,070 is Steen Arneson this is episode 4 4 00:00:16,340 --> 00:00:13,920 episode 3 was where I first talked to 5 00:00:18,830 --> 00:00:16,350 Stan and this is a very large excerpt 6 00:00:20,540 --> 00:00:18,840 that I removed from episode 3 so make 7 00:00:23,060 --> 00:00:20,550 sure you listen to episode 3 before you 8 00:00:26,089 --> 00:00:23,070 listen to episode 4 there's a bunch of 9 00:00:28,310 --> 00:00:26,099 technical things in this episode because 10 00:00:30,460 --> 00:00:28,320 we talked a lot about the science behind 11 00:00:33,049 --> 00:00:30,470 the collapse of the World Trade Center 12 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:33,059 but that mostly happens in the second 13 00:00:36,380 --> 00:00:34,770 half hour so if you just want to listen 14 00:00:38,660 --> 00:00:36,390 to some interesting talk about 15 00:00:40,340 --> 00:00:38,670 conspiracy theories and debunking the 16 00:00:42,319 --> 00:00:40,350 first half hour is very good and if 17 00:00:44,060 --> 00:00:42,329 you're interested in the science of the 18 00:00:46,580 --> 00:00:44,070 collapse of the World Trade Center and 19 00:00:49,940 --> 00:00:46,590 how to talk about it listen to the 20 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:49,950 second half - we start out talking here 21 00:00:56,510 --> 00:00:53,250 about the Alaska report which is a 22 00:00:58,549 --> 00:00:56,520 report carried out by dr. Leroy Halsey 23 00:01:00,770 --> 00:00:58,559 at the University of Alaska and a couple 24 00:01:02,930 --> 00:01:00,780 of his graduate students there was paid 25 00:01:05,090 --> 00:01:02,940 for by architects and engineers for 9/11 26 00:01:07,550 --> 00:01:05,100 truth which is a group that promotes the 27 00:01:09,679 --> 00:01:07,560 conspiracy theory that the World Trade 28 00:01:12,260 --> 00:01:09,689 Center was destroyed by explosives this 29 00:01:14,510 --> 00:01:12,270 report has been in process for a number 30 00:01:17,330 --> 00:01:14,520 of years and is just on the verge of 31 00:01:18,830 --> 00:01:17,340 being released couple more things I want 32 00:01:21,410 --> 00:01:18,840 to touch on what you think is going to 33 00:01:25,310 --> 00:01:21,420 happen with the immediate future of the 34 00:01:27,140 --> 00:01:25,320 9/11 community you just go on exactly 35 00:01:30,260 --> 00:01:27,150 the same because of the number of ions 36 00:01:31,749 --> 00:01:30,270 in the fire so to speak with the studies 37 00:01:34,810 --> 00:01:31,759 and the lawsuits and things like that 38 00:01:39,350 --> 00:01:34,820 yeah well it could it could potentially 39 00:01:41,539 --> 00:01:39,360 lead to some unintentional consequences 40 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:41,549 I feel when when talking to one of the 41 00:01:46,819 --> 00:01:43,890 peer reviewers what they've done in the 42 00:01:49,999 --> 00:01:46,829 Alaska report that I got to know today 43 00:01:52,330 --> 00:01:50,009 is that they've done an entire 44 00:01:57,679 --> 00:01:52,340 simulation of the collapse of building 7 45 00:02:01,399 --> 00:01:57,689 from the top down and they've with the 46 00:02:05,780 --> 00:02:01,409 report being released hopefully before 47 00:02:09,410 --> 00:02:05,790 the summer they have done modeling where 48 00:02:11,809 --> 00:02:09,420 they've taken out certain sections of 49 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:11,819 the building and done the same as in the 50 00:02:17,890 --> 00:02:14,690 official World Trade Center 7 51 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:17,900 and tried to simulate how things would 52 00:02:24,690 --> 00:02:22,370 happen and also simulated according to 53 00:02:26,860 --> 00:02:24,700 him that what would happen if all the 54 00:02:30,250 --> 00:02:26,870 coal columns would have been taken out 55 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:30,260 instantly hmm so they've gone through a 56 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:33,170 lot of different scenarios to exclude 57 00:02:40,630 --> 00:02:36,770 the possibility that the official story 58 00:02:43,990 --> 00:02:40,640 is is true and they're hoping to get the 59 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:44,000 report within a couple of weeks for for 60 00:02:50,110 --> 00:02:47,890 peer review the reason for the delay has 61 00:02:54,610 --> 00:02:50,120 according to him Ben 62 00:02:59,290 --> 00:02:54,620 because Leroy Halsey has been injured in 63 00:03:02,920 --> 00:02:59,300 an accident and they've had to change a 64 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:02,930 bit of the rhetoric and the report due 65 00:03:11,020 --> 00:03:08,690 to the language being used in it and I 66 00:03:14,020 --> 00:03:11,030 think that with our report coming out 67 00:03:20,259 --> 00:03:14,030 there can be some some healthy questions 68 00:03:22,420 --> 00:03:20,269 that could hopefully bring up some some 69 00:03:26,199 --> 00:03:22,430 new questions that could lead somewhere 70 00:03:28,030 --> 00:03:26,209 and I will of course notify you as soon 71 00:03:31,210 --> 00:03:28,040 as I can when that report becomes 72 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:31,220 available in any draft or any in any way 73 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:33,290 because I think the more Minds look at 74 00:03:43,090 --> 00:03:38,930 it with different classes they the 75 00:03:45,930 --> 00:03:43,100 better but with the future of 911 76 00:03:48,340 --> 00:03:45,940 community I think that it will be I 77 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:48,350 think it will depend on the Alaska 78 00:03:53,070 --> 00:03:51,650 report and the lawsuits coming up so 79 00:04:00,509 --> 00:03:53,080 what do you mean by unintended 80 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:00,519 consequences could maybe lead to 81 00:04:05,350 --> 00:04:03,170 questions being asked that hasn't been 82 00:04:08,350 --> 00:04:05,360 asked before in the engineering 83 00:04:11,500 --> 00:04:08,360 communities want the idea is to spread 84 00:04:14,170 --> 00:04:11,510 this report far and wide through all 85 00:04:16,990 --> 00:04:14,180 different kinds of engineering and 86 00:04:18,870 --> 00:04:17,000 architecture and communities to to how 87 00:04:24,250 --> 00:04:18,880 the most amount of people look at it and 88 00:04:25,990 --> 00:04:24,260 if the report shows what he says it will 89 00:04:27,460 --> 00:04:26,000 show that there's no way that this 90 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:27,470 building came down the way it did 91 00:04:32,860 --> 00:04:28,130 because 92 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:32,870 fire then I guess the unintentional 93 00:04:37,780 --> 00:04:35,690 consequences could be could be anything 94 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:37,790 really I mean it could be potentially 95 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:41,570 the an uprising of fun investigation or 96 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:44,690 it could be something else that I I 97 00:04:50,890 --> 00:04:47,810 can't even imagine because if it does 98 00:04:53,110 --> 00:04:50,900 come out that there's no way then I can 99 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:53,120 only speculate as to what will what will 100 00:04:58,570 --> 00:04:55,810 happen but I don't think it will die out 101 00:04:59,740 --> 00:04:58,580 yeah I don't certainly don't think it's 102 00:05:02,350 --> 00:04:59,750 gonna die out to you there is one of 103 00:05:06,060 --> 00:05:02,360 those conspiracies that's you know 104 00:05:09,730 --> 00:05:06,070 obviously it's been 18 years now and 105 00:05:13,150 --> 00:05:09,740 yeah it's it's going to you know like 106 00:05:16,510 --> 00:05:13,160 JFK well you know that conspiracy theory 107 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:16,520 will live forever but I think you know 108 00:05:20,020 --> 00:05:18,410 maybe one of the consequences you 109 00:05:22,390 --> 00:05:20,030 mentioned was you know people looking at 110 00:05:25,060 --> 00:05:22,400 things the N looked at before and one of 111 00:05:30,190 --> 00:05:25,070 the challenges I have in debunking 112 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:30,200 things is that the mainstream scientific 113 00:05:34,450 --> 00:05:32,570 community doesn't really take things 114 00:05:37,210 --> 00:05:34,460 seriously so it's kind of hard to get 115 00:05:38,860 --> 00:05:37,220 people to look at chemtrails but I was 116 00:05:41,100 --> 00:05:38,870 part of a study where we asked 117 00:05:45,610 --> 00:05:41,110 scientists to look at Kemah Trails 118 00:05:47,110 --> 00:05:45,620 supposed chemtrails photos and we 119 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:47,120 surveyed all these scientists like 120 00:05:50,290 --> 00:05:48,770 hundreds of them and we've got a lot of 121 00:05:52,090 --> 00:05:50,300 responses back people saying are you 122 00:05:53,140 --> 00:05:52,100 serious like this is just ridiculous why 123 00:05:55,270 --> 00:05:53,150 are you even doing this and people 124 00:05:58,090 --> 00:05:55,280 didn't respond a lot of the time and 125 00:06:00,130 --> 00:05:58,100 then there was you know there was some 126 00:06:02,290 --> 00:06:00,140 proper scientific names associated with 127 00:06:03,850 --> 00:06:02,300 the study so we did actually get some 128 00:06:06,490 --> 00:06:03,860 responses but it's very hard for people 129 00:06:07,450 --> 00:06:06,500 to take things seriously and I think why 130 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:07,460 do you think it is 131 00:06:14,380 --> 00:06:11,450 well because chemtrails in particular I 132 00:06:15,790 --> 00:06:14,390 think yeah a scientist when told the 133 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:15,800 government is secretly spraying things 134 00:06:19,840 --> 00:06:17,930 out of the back of planes and the 135 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:19,850 evidence is these white lines we see in 136 00:06:24,450 --> 00:06:22,250 the sky they'll just say well those are 137 00:06:27,010 --> 00:06:24,460 contrails what are you talking about and 138 00:06:30,030 --> 00:06:27,020 it immediately on the face of it falls 139 00:06:36,280 --> 00:06:30,040 falls down and I think most people I 140 00:06:38,380 --> 00:06:36,290 think indeed sorry oh did we know that 141 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:38,390 they they have experienced there were 142 00:06:44,970 --> 00:06:41,530 experimenting with chemtrails as a way 143 00:06:47,730 --> 00:06:44,980 not directly chemtrails but contrails as 144 00:06:50,100 --> 00:06:47,740 a way to perhaps stop global warming or 145 00:06:53,220 --> 00:06:50,110 to to cool the planet and creating 146 00:06:55,350 --> 00:06:53,230 artificial clouds and putting chemicals 147 00:06:58,050 --> 00:06:55,360 into this to make it more intense so 148 00:07:00,480 --> 00:06:58,060 that it would do whatever it needs to to 149 00:07:03,300 --> 00:07:00,490 do to cool the planet so the the idea 150 00:07:06,410 --> 00:07:03,310 that the government would be spraying 151 00:07:10,740 --> 00:07:06,420 something to put it like that and into 152 00:07:12,690 --> 00:07:10,750 using planes to do it one would think 153 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:12,700 that a scientist with the people that 154 00:07:18,990 --> 00:07:16,410 you approached would should instead say 155 00:07:21,030 --> 00:07:19,000 well let me get back to you on this and 156 00:07:23,790 --> 00:07:21,040 let me look at it instead to have an 157 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:23,800 open mind the people that we contacted 158 00:07:30,110 --> 00:07:25,450 were people who were experts in their 159 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:30,120 field and there was two areas one was 160 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:32,050 atmospheric physics which is basically 161 00:07:37,860 --> 00:07:35,370 clouds and things and the other one was 162 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:37,870 atmospheric chemistry which is the 163 00:07:41,370 --> 00:07:39,730 things that are in the air and the 164 00:07:43,170 --> 00:07:41,380 deposition of those things out of the 165 00:07:45,870 --> 00:07:43,180 air so they are familiar with what's 166 00:07:48,060 --> 00:07:45,880 actually going on in the sky and they 167 00:07:50,010 --> 00:07:48,070 know that near the trails are contrails 168 00:07:54,570 --> 00:07:50,020 and they know that there haven't been 169 00:07:58,050 --> 00:07:54,580 any you know large amounts of aluminum 170 00:08:00,030 --> 00:07:58,060 being found in the air and also it we 171 00:08:01,770 --> 00:08:00,040 didn't just ask them we send them a 172 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:01,780 questionnaire which gave them the 173 00:08:06,180 --> 00:08:05,050 opportunity to look up things and so 174 00:08:08,070 --> 00:08:06,190 they could look at what the state of 175 00:08:10,890 --> 00:08:08,080 geoengineering research is right now and 176 00:08:14,190 --> 00:08:10,900 the state of it is that no tests have 177 00:08:15,810 --> 00:08:14,200 been done spraying things from planes so 178 00:08:17,909 --> 00:08:15,820 we're at a very very early stage in 179 00:08:21,420 --> 00:08:17,919 potential geoengineering research and 180 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:21,430 because they know that they they're just 181 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:24,130 going to dismiss it I think you know a 182 00:08:29,010 --> 00:08:26,050 lot of people also are quite dismissive 183 00:08:31,610 --> 00:08:29,020 of conspiracy theories in general yet 184 00:08:35,130 --> 00:08:31,620 the idea that the government is secretly 185 00:08:37,950 --> 00:08:35,140 doing this enormous project spraying 186 00:08:39,540 --> 00:08:37,960 thousands of tons tens of thousand tons 187 00:08:41,940 --> 00:08:39,550 per day just seems ridiculous to a lot 188 00:08:43,380 --> 00:08:41,950 of people now I know it also seems 189 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:43,390 perfectly normal to a lot of people 190 00:08:46,170 --> 00:08:45,010 because they are more prone to believe 191 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:46,180 that the government does these 192 00:08:52,140 --> 00:08:48,970 large-scale secret projects I think both 193 00:08:55,180 --> 00:08:52,150 9/11 though it's like you get the same 194 00:08:57,550 --> 00:08:55,190 reaction from engineers and 195 00:09:00,970 --> 00:08:57,560 scientists and pilots when you talk to 196 00:09:02,890 --> 00:09:00,980 them they will either just reject it out 197 00:09:05,380 --> 00:09:02,900 of hand because it just seems so 198 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:05,390 ridiculous or they will know something 199 00:09:12,100 --> 00:09:07,970 about it or a combination of both those 200 00:09:14,530 --> 00:09:12,110 things and so they just they view 9/11 201 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:14,540 conspiracy theorists like no offense as 202 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:16,970 being from their perspective like 203 00:09:21,210 --> 00:09:19,250 tinfoil hats type people that they only 204 00:09:25,300 --> 00:09:21,220 don't even think they deserve any time 205 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:25,310 any of their time so if we wanted to get 206 00:09:30,460 --> 00:09:28,370 a proper refutation of the architects 207 00:09:32,530 --> 00:09:30,470 and engineers for 9/11 truth its left to 208 00:09:35,140 --> 00:09:32,540 people like me or like the other people 209 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:35,150 who aren't really engineers learn to go 210 00:09:39,340 --> 00:09:36,970 through these things and so we get these 211 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:39,350 here debunking is that really don't 212 00:09:44,170 --> 00:09:40,850 carry that much weight even if they are 213 00:09:49,060 --> 00:09:44,180 correct but that phenomenon in itself of 214 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:49,070 that way of reacting to I mean the idea 215 00:09:59,080 --> 00:09:52,970 of there being a conspiracy being true 216 00:10:02,470 --> 00:09:59,090 or not true should either way have you 217 00:10:05,890 --> 00:10:02,480 know be open for discussion or debate at 218 00:10:07,270 --> 00:10:05,900 least I mean the the idea that the it 219 00:10:10,090 --> 00:10:07,280 doesn't have to be the government let's 220 00:10:12,430 --> 00:10:10,100 say it could be a privatized institution 221 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:12,440 or company or it could be several 222 00:10:18,700 --> 00:10:15,410 companies it could be privatized with or 223 00:10:21,850 --> 00:10:18,710 maybe privatized and government interest 224 00:10:26,350 --> 00:10:21,860 cooperating to achieve a common interest 225 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:26,360 or a common goal - and regardless of how 226 00:10:36,460 --> 00:10:33,370 I wonder where that phenomenon or 227 00:10:38,680 --> 00:10:36,470 psychological phenomenon in people come 228 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:38,690 from where they have that reaction as 229 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:40,730 you say that oh this is so ludicrous I'm 230 00:10:45,550 --> 00:10:43,610 not even going to touch it where in some 231 00:10:49,090 --> 00:10:45,560 cases these things that sound so 232 00:10:51,010 --> 00:10:49,100 ludicrous for example what what Snowden 233 00:10:54,220 --> 00:10:51,020 revealed or what Julian Assange is 234 00:10:56,620 --> 00:10:54,230 revealed or go through history through 235 00:11:00,579 --> 00:10:56,630 the Roman Empire or anything else you 236 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:00,589 see this as a human phenomenon to 237 00:11:05,620 --> 00:11:03,530 collaborate or to achieve a goal and 238 00:11:09,060 --> 00:11:05,630 you're willing to go at any lengths to 239 00:11:13,170 --> 00:11:09,070 achieve it if you ideologically 240 00:11:17,129 --> 00:11:13,180 rooted enough to and then do it so I I 241 00:11:20,069 --> 00:11:17,139 wonder why so much resistance in people 242 00:11:22,319 --> 00:11:20,079 and experts a so-called experts where 243 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:22,329 they don't even want to look at the 244 00:11:26,670 --> 00:11:24,250 material that's that's when I have a 245 00:11:29,910 --> 00:11:26,680 problem with it because they they're the 246 00:11:31,650 --> 00:11:29,920 ones responsible for answering the 247 00:11:33,420 --> 00:11:31,660 questions about this because they're the 248 00:11:35,340 --> 00:11:33,430 ones that know something about this and 249 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:35,350 then the only ones that can tell us how 250 00:11:41,519 --> 00:11:38,170 we're wrong and when they have a 251 00:11:44,460 --> 00:11:41,529 reaction like that it just builds up the 252 00:11:49,819 --> 00:11:44,470 inertia of people that believe that 253 00:11:53,370 --> 00:11:49,829 there's definitely a cover-up and some 254 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:53,380 mm-hmm paralleling it here to the way 255 00:12:00,720 --> 00:11:56,290 that these scientists are reacting might 256 00:12:04,710 --> 00:12:00,730 be familiar to almost these small groups 257 00:12:07,079 --> 00:12:04,720 families where they have their worldview 258 00:12:10,110 --> 00:12:07,089 threatened because what if they're 259 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:10,120 actually right what if I am you know for 260 00:12:13,740 --> 00:12:12,490 example in the 911 community saying that 261 00:12:15,689 --> 00:12:13,750 maybe it's not the way you think it is 262 00:12:17,879 --> 00:12:15,699 oh [\h__\h] well then we're gonna exclude 263 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:17,889 you we're not gonna listen to you your 264 00:12:23,939 --> 00:12:20,850 your shell or your they name call you 265 00:12:27,809 --> 00:12:23,949 just like they do with tinfoil hats or 266 00:12:31,889 --> 00:12:27,819 they it's the identical behavior in my 267 00:12:34,139 --> 00:12:31,899 view and where do you think this this 268 00:12:37,079 --> 00:12:34,149 phenomenon comes from from in people 269 00:12:39,180 --> 00:12:37,089 well has reminded there with some of the 270 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:39,190 interactions I've had with Flat Earth 271 00:12:44,430 --> 00:12:42,130 people and talking to people who are not 272 00:12:46,769 --> 00:12:44,440 flat earth people and you know obviously 273 00:12:50,490 --> 00:12:46,779 it's a far more ridiculous conspiracy 274 00:12:52,980 --> 00:12:50,500 theory than even chemtrails on 9/11 but 275 00:12:54,629 --> 00:12:52,990 you get the same reaction from ordinary 276 00:12:57,030 --> 00:12:54,639 people like if you say like you know I 277 00:12:58,259 --> 00:12:57,040 believe the world is flat then they are 278 00:13:00,900 --> 00:12:58,269 going to say that's just ridiculous 279 00:13:03,050 --> 00:13:00,910 that's just complete nonsense said not 280 00:13:06,930 --> 00:13:03,060 even going to bother talking about that 281 00:13:09,660 --> 00:13:06,940 and but if you ask most people how do 282 00:13:11,970 --> 00:13:09,670 you know the earth is flat how do you 283 00:13:15,300 --> 00:13:11,980 know the earth is round they won't they 284 00:13:17,490 --> 00:13:15,310 be able to give you answer they're just 285 00:13:19,139 --> 00:13:17,500 saying it because you know that's what 286 00:13:20,730 --> 00:13:19,149 they've learnt in school and they trust 287 00:13:22,910 --> 00:13:20,740 the scientists and yeah 288 00:13:25,620 --> 00:13:22,920 and people make fun of flat-earthers 289 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:25,630 yeah and I think there's obviously going 290 00:13:30,570 --> 00:13:27,850 to be a degree of that in in any 291 00:13:35,810 --> 00:13:30,580 conspiracy theory if you say like you 292 00:13:39,180 --> 00:13:35,820 know why don't you believe in chemtrails 293 00:13:41,010 --> 00:13:39,190 the initial reaction of a lot of people 294 00:13:45,660 --> 00:13:41,020 is that that's obviously ridiculous and 295 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:45,670 with 9/11 everyone saw the planes fly 296 00:13:49,889 --> 00:13:47,050 into the buildings and we saw the 297 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:49,899 buildings burn and we saw the buildings 298 00:13:55,530 --> 00:13:51,850 collapse so it doesn't seem that 299 00:13:58,590 --> 00:13:55,540 unreasonable to most people that that's 300 00:14:00,510 --> 00:13:58,600 what happened and then you got some 301 00:14:02,100 --> 00:14:00,520 other people like saying oh maybe there 302 00:14:04,050 --> 00:14:02,110 were pre planted explosives then it's 303 00:14:05,940 --> 00:14:04,060 because we can see these squibs and they 304 00:14:08,250 --> 00:14:05,950 didn't for the right speed and you know 305 00:14:10,980 --> 00:14:08,260 this flange was to two inches too wide 306 00:14:14,370 --> 00:14:10,990 that just sounds like a lot of to most 307 00:14:17,730 --> 00:14:14,380 ordinary people it it just seems like it 308 00:14:19,139 --> 00:14:17,740 an unnecessary made-up complication to 309 00:14:20,730 --> 00:14:19,149 their simple explanation that they 310 00:14:22,710 --> 00:14:20,740 already have that they think most people 311 00:14:25,199 --> 00:14:22,720 share and that they bought into at the 312 00:14:28,620 --> 00:14:25,209 time and that we you know we justified 313 00:14:29,670 --> 00:14:28,630 going to war over and so they they just 314 00:14:32,130 --> 00:14:29,680 rejected out of hand 315 00:14:36,660 --> 00:14:32,140 well the vast majority of people are not 316 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:36,670 interested in the science behind 9/11 317 00:14:40,110 --> 00:14:38,050 like in the way they're not interested 318 00:14:42,150 --> 00:14:40,120 in the science of whether the the world 319 00:14:45,750 --> 00:14:42,160 is flat or not they're just things that 320 00:14:46,740 --> 00:14:45,760 dear the official story and you know I 321 00:14:50,250 --> 00:14:46,750 personally think that they are correct 322 00:14:51,810 --> 00:14:50,260 in in in in that general assessment and 323 00:14:58,260 --> 00:14:51,820 here certainly with the physics aspect 324 00:15:01,949 --> 00:14:58,270 of it but yeah I I would like to have 325 00:15:04,319 --> 00:15:01,959 more physicists weighing in on why the 326 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:04,329 towers collapsed and why building 7 327 00:15:10,730 --> 00:15:07,930 collapsed the way it did I was thinking 328 00:15:13,530 --> 00:15:10,740 like that the the Kentrell paper I 329 00:15:16,319 --> 00:15:13,540 helped out on was called an expert 330 00:15:18,139 --> 00:15:16,329 consensus on secret large-scale aerial 331 00:15:20,910 --> 00:15:18,149 spraying project when it's basically a 332 00:15:22,500 --> 00:15:20,920 consensus paper where you try to figure 333 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:22,510 out what all the scientists think on 334 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:24,010 average and I think we could do 335 00:15:30,630 --> 00:15:26,290 something similar like to that with 9/11 336 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:30,640 because somehow managed to take a survey 337 00:15:34,230 --> 00:15:33,130 or actual engineers there have been 338 00:15:36,570 --> 00:15:34,240 interesting 339 00:15:38,970 --> 00:15:36,580 you know getting a better gauge because 340 00:15:40,860 --> 00:15:38,980 right now all we have is that we have 341 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:40,870 these you know thousands of architects 342 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:43,570 and engineers for 9/11 truth on the one 343 00:15:48,090 --> 00:15:44,890 hand and then we've got like a vast 344 00:15:49,590 --> 00:15:48,100 silence on the other other side now 345 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:49,600 really that's not silence is because 346 00:15:52,980 --> 00:15:51,010 these people are going oh that's just 347 00:15:55,500 --> 00:15:52,990 ridiculous why are you anything why am I 348 00:15:57,990 --> 00:15:55,510 going to bother with that yeah but so 349 00:15:59,970 --> 00:15:58,000 the people on the truth side they think 350 00:16:01,260 --> 00:15:59,980 that you know these people you know 351 00:16:04,019 --> 00:16:01,270 they're scared of losing their jobs 352 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:04,029 they're scared of being ostracized they 353 00:16:11,850 --> 00:16:08,050 don't want to look at it because it's it 354 00:16:13,470 --> 00:16:11,860 worries them listen that there could be 355 00:16:19,350 --> 00:16:13,480 some truth in that for us of individuals 356 00:16:22,710 --> 00:16:19,360 yeah but people do if people start 357 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:22,720 spouting 9/11 truth in the workplace it 358 00:16:25,650 --> 00:16:24,490 can actually lead to problems but that's 359 00:16:27,210 --> 00:16:25,660 just the Anglian if you start being 360 00:16:29,579 --> 00:16:27,220 evangelical about anything in the 361 00:16:30,900 --> 00:16:29,589 workplace and it's going to going to 362 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:30,910 cause problems cause you're not doing it 363 00:16:33,870 --> 00:16:32,050 work you're spending your time you've 364 00:16:36,750 --> 00:16:33,880 been Jellico Singh and I'm bothering 365 00:16:41,730 --> 00:16:36,760 people you know I certainly I see your 366 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:41,740 point that people might be you know they 367 00:16:46,890 --> 00:16:44,050 don't want to look into these things as 368 00:16:49,350 --> 00:16:46,900 a constant whining decision maybe maybe 369 00:16:52,019 --> 00:16:49,360 I said conscious decision as well but 370 00:16:54,510 --> 00:16:52,029 yeah I would I would encourage people to 371 00:16:58,110 --> 00:16:54,520 look into them I look into them but like 372 00:17:01,290 --> 00:16:58,120 I said yeah I think there's one group of 373 00:17:03,500 --> 00:17:01,300 truth activists who have a challenge 374 00:17:06,360 --> 00:17:03,510 every year where they have a debate and 375 00:17:07,439 --> 00:17:06,370 they put up this one guy or another guy 376 00:17:10,169 --> 00:17:07,449 those two guys that they alternate 377 00:17:11,790 --> 00:17:10,179 between I think and they they hold this 378 00:17:15,870 --> 00:17:11,800 debate every year and every year the 379 00:17:18,360 --> 00:17:15,880 nine eleven people win now the reason 380 00:17:21,510 --> 00:17:18,370 they win is that no one shows up to the 381 00:17:22,679 --> 00:17:21,520 debate and no one shows up because all 382 00:17:27,270 --> 00:17:22,689 they have is they have an open 383 00:17:30,860 --> 00:17:27,280 invitation to somebody with a PhD in 384 00:17:33,810 --> 00:17:30,870 physics and who has a certain like 385 00:17:35,220 --> 00:17:33,820 publication ranking and so many years of 386 00:17:37,290 --> 00:17:35,230 experience and there's published one 387 00:17:37,620 --> 00:17:37,300 paper on building dynamics or something 388 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:37,630 like that 389 00:17:41,460 --> 00:17:39,490 so they've got this little narrow field 390 00:17:43,500 --> 00:17:41,470 of people which is probably you know 391 00:17:47,370 --> 00:17:43,510 only a few hundred or maybe a thousand 392 00:17:48,220 --> 00:17:47,380 people and they just announce it on the 393 00:17:50,230 --> 00:17:48,230 internet and they probably 394 00:17:52,390 --> 00:17:50,240 email a bunch of them and people will 395 00:17:54,730 --> 00:17:52,400 just put that straight into the bin when 396 00:17:57,940 --> 00:17:54,740 it arrives no one's taking them up on it 397 00:18:00,669 --> 00:17:57,950 but they wouldn't have me on even though 398 00:18:01,930 --> 00:18:00,679 I could probably answer a lot of the 399 00:18:03,430 --> 00:18:01,940 questions that they do even though I 400 00:18:06,370 --> 00:18:03,440 don't have a PhD in physics I'm familiar 401 00:18:07,750 --> 00:18:06,380 with the basic the basic issues they 402 00:18:11,500 --> 00:18:07,760 wouldn't have me um because I don't have 403 00:18:15,039 --> 00:18:11,510 a PhD in physics and so they I don't 404 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:15,049 know if they're justified in doing that 405 00:18:21,580 --> 00:18:18,650 because yeah are they genuinely doing it 406 00:18:23,100 --> 00:18:21,590 because they don't want lay people on or 407 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:23,110 is it just a way of artificially 408 00:18:28,150 --> 00:18:25,970 restricting the debate people I think 409 00:18:34,299 --> 00:18:28,160 you have a really bad name in that 410 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:34,309 communities to put it on their website I 411 00:18:43,270 --> 00:18:40,690 was called the Pope of demolition denial 412 00:18:46,030 --> 00:18:43,280 that's actually something that's on an 413 00:18:48,370 --> 00:18:46,040 actual article on architects and 414 00:18:57,760 --> 00:18:48,380 engineers for 9/11 truth the Pope of 415 00:19:03,340 --> 00:18:57,770 demolition denial what does that even 416 00:19:06,010 --> 00:19:03,350 mean oh it could mean like yeah my word 417 00:19:07,150 --> 00:19:06,020 is law or something like that no it was 418 00:19:08,950 --> 00:19:07,160 it's quite funny 419 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:08,960 yeah and that's an unfortunate thing as 420 00:19:14,740 --> 00:19:12,890 well like talking to people I I want to 421 00:19:16,690 --> 00:19:14,750 be able to communicate with people but 422 00:19:21,430 --> 00:19:16,700 once they form this opinion of me as 423 00:19:25,060 --> 00:19:21,440 being a you know a shill or whatever 424 00:19:27,909 --> 00:19:25,070 they think a Pope then it makes it very 425 00:19:30,070 --> 00:19:27,919 hard to talk to her man and it's 426 00:19:33,090 --> 00:19:30,080 unfortunate like you know I talked to 427 00:19:35,950 --> 00:19:33,100 you and we had I think very productive 428 00:19:37,659 --> 00:19:35,960 discussions and very honest discussions 429 00:19:39,220 --> 00:19:37,669 like we did today and I think it was it 430 00:19:41,140 --> 00:19:39,230 was great I think you know progress was 431 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:41,150 made and I have a better understanding 432 00:19:46,900 --> 00:19:44,090 of the issues from my discussions with 433 00:19:49,450 --> 00:19:46,910 you and you know you probably got some 434 00:19:51,220 --> 00:19:49,460 something from the discussions too so I 435 00:19:53,890 --> 00:19:51,230 think having these types of discussions 436 00:19:59,200 --> 00:19:53,900 is is a vital part for everyone to move 437 00:20:02,019 --> 00:19:59,210 forward i I was wondering in regards to 438 00:20:07,839 --> 00:20:02,029 I completely agree with you there 439 00:20:11,499 --> 00:20:07,849 um we had a conversation with richard 440 00:20:15,310 --> 00:20:11,509 gage on the phone a while back you and I 441 00:20:17,259 --> 00:20:15,320 hadn't oh yeah yes yeah yeah yeah oh 442 00:20:19,479 --> 00:20:17,269 yeah with richard gage on the phone and 443 00:20:21,940 --> 00:20:19,489 i I had an impression that that was 444 00:20:25,539 --> 00:20:21,950 productive in a way even though it 445 00:20:28,509 --> 00:20:25,549 wasn't exactly going into the weeds as 446 00:20:33,009 --> 00:20:28,519 you wanted it to but if that was the 447 00:20:36,369 --> 00:20:33,019 approach forward where there could be I 448 00:20:40,299 --> 00:20:36,379 mean I've been asking myself why why why 449 00:20:44,159 --> 00:20:40,309 the heck hasn't there been a panel where 450 00:20:48,430 --> 00:20:44,169 you for example and Richard gage and 451 00:20:50,529 --> 00:20:48,440 having for example two independent you 452 00:20:54,519 --> 00:20:50,539 know structural engineers or whatever or 453 00:20:57,180 --> 00:20:54,529 someone else having a discussion and an 454 00:21:01,149 --> 00:20:57,190 interaction maybe with each one's 455 00:21:04,509 --> 00:21:01,159 presentation and actually having a 456 00:21:07,299 --> 00:21:04,519 productive debate why hasn't that 457 00:21:09,909 --> 00:21:07,309 happened have you taken any initiative 458 00:21:13,419 --> 00:21:09,919 to try to make that happen has have you 459 00:21:15,129 --> 00:21:13,429 felt anything from the other side no no 460 00:21:16,719 --> 00:21:15,139 one's ever approached me on that and 461 00:21:19,060 --> 00:21:16,729 obviously I think when we were talking 462 00:21:22,089 --> 00:21:19,070 then it was about possibility of going 463 00:21:23,739 --> 00:21:22,099 on the Joe Rogan podcast which yeah just 464 00:21:28,450 --> 00:21:23,749 never happened cursing at Joe's I think 465 00:21:30,519 --> 00:21:28,460 moved on to other things and that would 466 00:21:33,339 --> 00:21:30,529 have been a good talk I think just me 467 00:21:36,129 --> 00:21:33,349 and Richard discussing our differences 468 00:21:38,229 --> 00:21:36,139 will be good with someone like Joe or 469 00:21:40,749 --> 00:21:38,239 someone like that mediating you know 470 00:21:42,899 --> 00:21:40,759 like you say often these conversations 471 00:21:46,599 --> 00:21:42,909 they devolve into the weeds the details 472 00:21:50,499 --> 00:21:46,609 and it can be a bit boring for the 473 00:21:54,399 --> 00:21:50,509 listener did you see my discussion I had 474 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:54,409 with Tony's Ambati yes I was interesting 475 00:21:57,700 --> 00:21:56,210 you know I didn't obviously I didn't 476 00:22:00,639 --> 00:21:57,710 change his mind and he didn't change my 477 00:22:02,139 --> 00:22:00,649 mind but we discussed things and I told 478 00:22:03,879 --> 00:22:02,149 him some things that he didn't know like 479 00:22:06,789 --> 00:22:03,889 he didn't know that 480 00:22:09,070 --> 00:22:06,799 you know the good 2001 wasn't actually 481 00:22:12,519 --> 00:22:09,080 an initiating event in the global 482 00:22:13,989 --> 00:22:12,529 simulations which you know is a detail 483 00:22:15,490 --> 00:22:13,999 that most people is completely 484 00:22:17,550 --> 00:22:15,500 meaningless 485 00:22:21,100 --> 00:22:17,560 burned it was very significant I think 486 00:22:24,970 --> 00:22:21,110 to to him and you know even to the the 487 00:22:28,060 --> 00:22:24,980 whole context of the study in Alaska so 488 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:28,070 I think having discussions like that can 489 00:22:34,510 --> 00:22:31,250 be productive I think beating out 490 00:22:36,730 --> 00:22:34,520 individual details like for example the 491 00:22:39,130 --> 00:22:36,740 the column that was cut at an angle if 492 00:22:40,990 --> 00:22:39,140 we can agree that that particular column 493 00:22:43,270 --> 00:22:41,000 was not cut at an angle then we can stop 494 00:22:46,390 --> 00:22:43,280 talking about it and stop wasting a lot 495 00:22:49,420 --> 00:22:46,400 of time and if we agree that there could 496 00:22:51,130 --> 00:22:49,430 be other causes of I in microspheres but 497 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:51,140 perhaps they think there was so many of 498 00:22:55,060 --> 00:22:52,730 them it must have been thermite then we 499 00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:55,070 can agree that you know we will we'll 500 00:23:00,730 --> 00:22:57,250 start talking about the quantity of 501 00:23:03,130 --> 00:23:00,740 microspheres rather than the simple 502 00:23:06,130 --> 00:23:03,140 presence so we can kind of move the 503 00:23:08,530 --> 00:23:06,140 conversation forward rather than just 504 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:08,540 doing these old things over and over 505 00:23:16,750 --> 00:23:12,410 again constantly having things like you 506 00:23:19,090 --> 00:23:16,760 know how can a aluminium plane penetrate 507 00:23:21,250 --> 00:23:19,100 a steel building and then I hold up a 508 00:23:23,290 --> 00:23:21,260 picture of ping-pong ball going from a 509 00:23:26,290 --> 00:23:23,300 ping-pong paddle and I do that like you 510 00:23:29,980 --> 00:23:26,300 know hundred times on individual basis 511 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:29,990 but if we can actually here agree on 512 00:23:34,540 --> 00:23:31,970 some things then I think it could be a 513 00:23:37,990 --> 00:23:34,550 bit more productive yeah yeah definitely 514 00:23:40,300 --> 00:23:38,000 the the the after having those 515 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:40,310 conversations with for example a toner 516 00:23:44,740 --> 00:23:42,890 Sembach tea and and other people in the 517 00:23:48,060 --> 00:23:44,750 community which I've seen you've had or 518 00:23:51,210 --> 00:23:48,070 at least doing podcasts with people 519 00:23:54,850 --> 00:23:51,220 talking about much of the same issues 520 00:23:58,600 --> 00:23:54,860 are there any after doing that do you 521 00:24:00,720 --> 00:23:58,610 feel there are questions around the 522 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:00,730 collapses of the buildings themselves 523 00:24:08,190 --> 00:24:05,090 that might have changed a little bit or 524 00:24:11,110 --> 00:24:08,200 that you feel do you feel that there are 525 00:24:14,860 --> 00:24:11,120 questions still about the collapses that 526 00:24:18,190 --> 00:24:14,870 are unanswered I think we don't know the 527 00:24:21,750 --> 00:24:18,200 exact sequence of initiating events for 528 00:24:25,810 --> 00:24:21,760 any of the collapses I think we've got 529 00:24:27,070 --> 00:24:25,820 the broad strokes of what happened but I 530 00:24:28,360 --> 00:24:27,080 don't think we know exactly what 531 00:24:29,260 --> 00:24:28,370 happened but I don't think we're ever 532 00:24:31,150 --> 00:24:29,270 going to be able to 533 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:31,160 find out because everything happened 534 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:34,010 inside the building so all we're going 535 00:24:37,390 --> 00:24:35,930 to be able to do is get a range of 536 00:24:40,180 --> 00:24:37,400 possibilities of what might have 537 00:24:45,220 --> 00:24:40,190 happened in only the World Trade Center 538 00:24:47,230 --> 00:24:45,230 seven much was made of this one girder 539 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:47,240 which was on a seat and the other 540 00:24:52,540 --> 00:24:50,450 girders pushed it off in one simulation 541 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:52,550 in another simulation they pulled it off 542 00:24:58,540 --> 00:24:55,610 and in yet more simulations it stayed in 543 00:25:03,310 --> 00:24:58,550 the same place so the initial conditions 544 00:25:05,230 --> 00:25:03,320 of of a simulation and the assumptions 545 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:05,240 you make about what happened with the 546 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:09,890 fire which are isn't entirely known will 547 00:25:15,810 --> 00:25:12,650 vary the outcome greatly now if you look 548 00:25:19,050 --> 00:25:15,820 at the simulations that NIST did they 549 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:19,060 they ran a simulation of the fire and 550 00:25:24,610 --> 00:25:21,770 then they ran a simulation of what 551 00:25:26,980 --> 00:25:24,620 damage that fire would do if it burned 552 00:25:30,430 --> 00:25:26,990 for under three different scenarios and 553 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:30,440 then they took that damage from the 554 00:25:34,660 --> 00:25:31,850 resultant damage and then they put it 555 00:25:38,110 --> 00:25:34,670 onto a completely different model and 556 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:38,120 then they just said ray city go and step 557 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:39,770 that model going with its damage already 558 00:25:46,570 --> 00:25:42,650 in place and the building collapsed mmm 559 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:46,580 which you know it was a reasonable thing 560 00:25:50,700 --> 00:25:48,290 to do with the technological limits at 561 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:50,710 the time you know one run of that 562 00:25:56,650 --> 00:25:53,090 building collapsing simulation took them 563 00:25:57,730 --> 00:25:56,660 like like three weeks to do yeah if they 564 00:25:59,260 --> 00:25:57,740 were to do it again now they could 565 00:26:00,760 --> 00:25:59,270 probably make it a lot better they can 566 00:26:03,340 --> 00:26:00,770 do it a lot faster and they do multiple 567 00:26:05,770 --> 00:26:03,350 runs they could farm it out into the 568 00:26:07,300 --> 00:26:05,780 cloud and have like tens of thousands of 569 00:26:08,980 --> 00:26:07,310 computers running out at once rather 570 00:26:12,340 --> 00:26:08,990 than just the five or six that they had 571 00:26:13,870 --> 00:26:12,350 running back then so yeah we couldn't if 572 00:26:16,390 --> 00:26:13,880 someone wanted to spend a few million 573 00:26:20,740 --> 00:26:16,400 dollars doing very detailed simulations 574 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:20,750 then this certainly could so I think but 575 00:26:26,380 --> 00:26:23,570 even then there's a thing is chaos 576 00:26:28,690 --> 00:26:26,390 theory tells us that very small changes 577 00:26:31,420 --> 00:26:28,700 in initial conditions have huge 578 00:26:35,410 --> 00:26:31,430 implications further down the line yeah 579 00:26:36,670 --> 00:26:35,420 so you know there's a lien there's only 580 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:36,680 a certain number of connections which 581 00:26:39,550 --> 00:26:38,330 can fail in the World Trade Center but 582 00:26:41,990 --> 00:26:39,560 we don't know which one is the first or 583 00:26:44,810 --> 00:26:42,000 what what what led to it what 584 00:26:45,950 --> 00:26:44,820 thermal expansion it's gonna be 585 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:45,960 completely different all over the place 586 00:26:49,100 --> 00:26:47,610 because there's fire here there's fire 587 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:49,110 there that cools down that dies down 588 00:26:52,100 --> 00:26:50,730 that's a certain distance away from that 589 00:26:53,450 --> 00:26:52,110 there's a bit of wind these windows are 590 00:26:55,550 --> 00:26:53,460 broken these windows are not broken 591 00:26:57,920 --> 00:26:55,560 these windows broom later in a certain 592 00:27:00,080 --> 00:26:57,930 time it's very very complicated so 593 00:27:02,060 --> 00:27:00,090 knowing exactly what the position of any 594 00:27:04,220 --> 00:27:02,070 particular girder or the state of any 595 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:04,230 particular bolt is is something that's 596 00:27:08,420 --> 00:27:06,450 not going to be known not not going to 597 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:08,430 be knowable you can only get the broad 598 00:27:12,950 --> 00:27:10,890 strokes you can say you know if this 599 00:27:14,270 --> 00:27:12,960 column fails then we're gonna get 600 00:27:19,310 --> 00:27:14,280 something that's gonna look roughly like 601 00:27:20,870 --> 00:27:19,320 this say if like if this column failed 602 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:20,880 and then this can't fail though or if 603 00:27:24,470 --> 00:27:23,010 you know this this floor failed you know 604 00:27:26,870 --> 00:27:24,480 what would happen you can run these you 605 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:26,880 know what if scenarios and you can say 606 00:27:31,970 --> 00:27:29,730 if if the fire was a certain you know 607 00:27:35,540 --> 00:27:31,980 intensity of what would happen but you 608 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:35,550 can't know exactly no but in regattas 609 00:27:39,980 --> 00:27:37,530 the collapse in itself when you look at 610 00:27:43,220 --> 00:27:39,990 the top down going down and especially 611 00:27:45,190 --> 00:27:43,230 towered - that was tilting mhm when it 612 00:27:47,690 --> 00:27:45,200 comes to mass in motion 613 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:47,700 isn't there a physical law that mass in 614 00:27:57,110 --> 00:27:49,890 motion goes where the least resistance 615 00:28:01,310 --> 00:27:57,120 is yes but in this instance well no 616 00:28:05,420 --> 00:28:01,320 there isn't really mass moves in a way 617 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:05,430 that is the result of net forces now if 618 00:28:09,020 --> 00:28:07,530 you say something will move in the 619 00:28:10,700 --> 00:28:09,030 direction of least resistance I mean 620 00:28:13,300 --> 00:28:10,710 this this ping-pong ball isn't moving 621 00:28:15,470 --> 00:28:13,310 even though this there's no resistance 622 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:15,480 straight up and there's very little from 623 00:28:19,610 --> 00:28:17,610 side to side but it isn't moving I have 624 00:28:21,470 --> 00:28:19,620 a ping-pong ball in my hand 625 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:21,480 if I remove what's underneath it it will 626 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:25,050 fall down now if if you got something 627 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:27,570 you know something being supported by 628 00:28:31,430 --> 00:28:28,890 something and the structure underneath 629 00:28:33,950 --> 00:28:31,440 that collapses is the path of least 630 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:33,960 resistance then straight up or is it to 631 00:28:39,020 --> 00:28:37,290 the left or is it straight down what 632 00:28:41,450 --> 00:28:39,030 we've got here is net forces we have a 633 00:28:43,820 --> 00:28:41,460 force of gravity acting straight 634 00:28:45,890 --> 00:28:43,830 straight down we under any forces acting 635 00:28:47,540 --> 00:28:45,900 left or right or up so we've got the 636 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:47,550 force of gravity acting straight down 637 00:28:52,430 --> 00:28:50,250 we've got a resistive force from the 638 00:28:55,490 --> 00:28:52,440 building below acting straight up if the 639 00:28:55,790 --> 00:28:55,500 force that's going upwards is less than 640 00:28:57,560 --> 00:28:55,800 the 641 00:29:00,530 --> 00:28:57,570 it's going downwards we have a resultant 642 00:29:02,390 --> 00:29:00,540 force which is downwards which is gonna 643 00:29:04,460 --> 00:29:02,400 be a bit less than gravity but it's 644 00:29:06,260 --> 00:29:04,470 downwards there's no reason for it to 645 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:06,270 move from one side to the other so 646 00:29:12,140 --> 00:29:08,730 saying the path of least resistance is 647 00:29:13,910 --> 00:29:12,150 kind of meaningless because when you add 648 00:29:17,570 --> 00:29:13,920 if you think of resistance as being a 649 00:29:19,850 --> 00:29:17,580 force you have to add in gravity and if 650 00:29:22,340 --> 00:29:19,860 the resistance is less than gravity then 651 00:29:23,510 --> 00:29:22,350 that's actually the path of least 652 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:23,520 resistance in fact there's actually a 653 00:29:25,790 --> 00:29:24,810 force going down even though there's 654 00:29:27,380 --> 00:29:25,800 nothing stopping it going sideways 655 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:27,390 there's a force going down there's no 656 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:32,730 forces going sideways it goes down but 657 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:35,370 in regards to the force that's pointing 658 00:29:41,180 --> 00:29:37,050 upwards the resistance of the structure 659 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:41,190 and in itself and the force that is just 660 00:29:45,830 --> 00:29:44,130 enough to to go down you would still 661 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:45,840 have that resistance and that resistance 662 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:49,250 is going to push it because it's not a 663 00:29:55,220 --> 00:29:52,290 symmetrical collapse in any way there is 664 00:29:58,280 --> 00:29:55,230 a point of collapse at some point and 665 00:30:00,890 --> 00:29:58,290 wherever that point is is the initiation 666 00:30:04,580 --> 00:30:00,900 regardless of where that is in my mind 667 00:30:06,710 --> 00:30:04,590 and and you know people I've talked to 668 00:30:08,810 --> 00:30:06,720 that architects and engineers here in 669 00:30:11,510 --> 00:30:08,820 Norway as well completely independent of 670 00:30:14,270 --> 00:30:11,520 this ask the same same questions that 671 00:30:17,270 --> 00:30:14,280 that I'm trying to ask here is how how 672 00:30:20,150 --> 00:30:17,280 would you then have a a mass that is 673 00:30:22,750 --> 00:30:20,160 moving in that right mmm doing it 674 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:22,760 symmetrically and continuing to do so 675 00:30:31,010 --> 00:30:26,490 all the way down and not having one flaw 676 00:30:33,740 --> 00:30:31,020 left and not even I mean for example one 677 00:30:37,220 --> 00:30:33,750 of these engineers told me that if you 678 00:30:41,980 --> 00:30:37,230 if you look at demolitions of buildings 679 00:30:44,930 --> 00:30:41,990 if you have one one explosive that fails 680 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:44,940 anywhere in that building you will see 681 00:30:52,820 --> 00:30:49,290 an asymmetrical destruction of that 682 00:30:55,220 --> 00:30:52,830 building where you will see exactly 683 00:30:57,260 --> 00:30:55,230 where that explosive didn't go off 684 00:31:01,190 --> 00:30:57,270 because you had a lot more resistance 685 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:01,200 there so having a cold structure beneath 686 00:31:10,130 --> 00:31:05,730 and having that mass coming down how how 687 00:31:12,230 --> 00:31:10,140 does it not move over to any 688 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:12,240 and I mean for example toilet - this 689 00:31:20,210 --> 00:31:16,010 starts to collapse tilting but it 690 00:31:22,220 --> 00:31:20,220 continues allegedly straight down on all 691 00:31:24,650 --> 00:31:22,230 the floors and there isn't one floor 692 00:31:27,260 --> 00:31:24,660 left then you only have is a is a was a 693 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:27,270 staircase with some firemen in it the 694 00:31:35,570 --> 00:31:31,290 bottom and in my mind that is really a 695 00:31:37,250 --> 00:31:35,580 mystery why why did it it seems an 696 00:31:39,700 --> 00:31:37,260 intuitive but I think if you're looking 697 00:31:41,780 --> 00:31:39,710 to physics in general there are a lot of 698 00:31:45,290 --> 00:31:41,790 principles of physics that seem 699 00:31:47,690 --> 00:31:45,300 unintuitive like you might not you know 700 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:47,700 why does a pendulum always take same 701 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:51,930 amount of time to swing as Penuel of a 702 00:31:56,210 --> 00:31:53,610 certain length depending regardless of 703 00:31:57,650 --> 00:31:56,220 how fast it's going he told us takes the 704 00:31:59,540 --> 00:31:57,660 same amount of time to complete one 705 00:32:02,480 --> 00:31:59,550 swing it's not an intuitively obvious 706 00:32:06,890 --> 00:32:02,490 thing that would happen but it does it's 707 00:32:10,550 --> 00:32:06,900 an observable thing in physics so with 708 00:32:13,510 --> 00:32:10,560 the top of building to now tower to the 709 00:32:15,620 --> 00:32:13,520 impact was higher up than in Tower one 710 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:15,630 no it was lower down wasn't it it was 711 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:17,370 lower down in a tower one it was a bit 712 00:32:21,250 --> 00:32:19,890 offset to one side more offset than the 713 00:32:23,990 --> 00:32:21,260 other Tower one which is fairly central 714 00:32:27,290 --> 00:32:24,000 and this caused a bit of an asymmetrical 715 00:32:32,870 --> 00:32:27,300 initial collapse which caused the top of 716 00:32:36,620 --> 00:32:32,880 the tower to lean over into one side but 717 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:36,630 when if something is leaning that means 718 00:32:41,210 --> 00:32:38,850 that one side of is falling faster than 719 00:32:43,130 --> 00:32:41,220 the other side which means that the site 720 00:32:46,580 --> 00:32:43,140 is falling faster is hitting the lower 721 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:46,590 structure more rapidly than the side 722 00:32:50,930 --> 00:32:48,810 that is falling slower so it's getting 723 00:32:53,930 --> 00:32:50,940 more resistive force on the side that is 724 00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:53,940 falling so it will actually slow the 725 00:32:58,850 --> 00:32:57,450 rotation of that to a certain degree but 726 00:33:01,430 --> 00:32:58,860 also the whole thing is just falling to 727 00:33:04,130 --> 00:33:01,440 pieces it's not like there's just one 728 00:33:06,770 --> 00:33:04,140 big lump on top which is falling down 729 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:06,780 and then you know Bam Bam Bam Bam Bam 730 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:07,290 Bam 731 00:33:13,550 --> 00:33:11,210 destroying each thing it's a 732 00:33:18,070 --> 00:33:13,560 disintegrating building essentially it's 733 00:33:21,380 --> 00:33:18,080 disintegrating into these free-falling 734 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:21,390 multi-ton girders if you imagine like in 735 00:33:23,570 --> 00:33:23,010 the room you're in right now if someone 736 00:33:26,990 --> 00:33:23,580 drops 737 00:33:29,510 --> 00:33:27,000 a 20-ton girder on the top of your house 738 00:33:32,060 --> 00:33:29,520 or your apartment building from a height 739 00:33:33,890 --> 00:33:32,070 at like 30 feet it would just need to go 740 00:33:35,870 --> 00:33:33,900 through the whole thing and in the World 741 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:35,880 Trade Center you've got literally 742 00:33:40,790 --> 00:33:38,130 thousands of that type of thing going on 743 00:33:43,130 --> 00:33:40,800 all over at all different places nice 744 00:33:45,620 --> 00:33:43,140 structure this falling is coming apart 745 00:33:47,210 --> 00:33:45,630 the structure that is below that is also 746 00:33:48,590 --> 00:33:47,220 coming apart the structure that's 747 00:33:51,110 --> 00:33:48,600 falling this coming apart comes apart 748 00:33:52,910 --> 00:33:51,120 slower because there's more stuff below 749 00:33:55,490 --> 00:33:52,920 it that is also falling hitting the 750 00:33:58,460 --> 00:33:55,500 stuff that's down below but it's like 751 00:34:00,020 --> 00:33:58,470 like someone dropped a bag of rocks on 752 00:34:02,270 --> 00:34:00,030 top of something rather than a single 753 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:02,280 rock it still does essentially the same 754 00:34:07,790 --> 00:34:05,010 thing there's a video on YouTube where 755 00:34:11,750 --> 00:34:07,800 someone drops a bigger load of water on 756 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:11,760 a car and the car gets crushed mmm even 757 00:34:16,730 --> 00:34:13,530 though it's just dropping some water on 758 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:16,740 the car from a height of 12 feet now 759 00:34:19,850 --> 00:34:18,690 because the water isn't a solid piece of 760 00:34:24,050 --> 00:34:19,860 something doesn't mean it can't do 761 00:34:26,750 --> 00:34:24,060 damage so yeah yeah you got to get away 762 00:34:30,470 --> 00:34:26,760 from thinking it in terms of yeah like 763 00:34:33,140 --> 00:34:30,480 cardboard box physics it's not it's not 764 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:33,150 a box falling through something it's 765 00:34:39,590 --> 00:34:36,330 it's it's girders and it's columns and 766 00:34:40,850 --> 00:34:39,600 it's concrete and going through the 767 00:34:44,810 --> 00:34:40,860 floors they're not going through the 768 00:34:47,450 --> 00:34:44,820 columns much more complicated than you 769 00:34:49,820 --> 00:34:47,460 know in a way where you can't really use 770 00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:49,830 you know people get angry when I say 771 00:34:53,060 --> 00:34:51,210 it's but you can't really use Newton's 772 00:34:56,770 --> 00:34:53,070 laws of physics to describe a complex 773 00:34:59,930 --> 00:34:56,780 situation if you look at Newton's 774 00:35:01,430 --> 00:34:59,940 Newton's laws of motion right Newton's 775 00:35:03,050 --> 00:35:01,440 laws of motion like you know action and 776 00:35:06,710 --> 00:35:03,060 reaction or equal and opposite a body in 777 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:06,720 motion stays in motion and F equals MA 778 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:09,450 forces mass times acceleration they only 779 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:13,170 apply in Newton's physics to point 780 00:35:20,300 --> 00:35:18,210 masses and you can't mathematically 781 00:35:23,060 --> 00:35:20,310 apply them to complex systems 782 00:35:26,540 --> 00:35:23,070 articulated systems there's another set 783 00:35:33,020 --> 00:35:26,550 of physics laws of physics which I think 784 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:33,030 a Oilers EU le are Euler's lot laws of 785 00:35:37,490 --> 00:35:36,930 physics which more complicated and they 786 00:35:41,540 --> 00:35:37,500 include the 787 00:35:41,990 --> 00:35:41,550 things like rotation there if you if you 788 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:42,000 hit 789 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:45,690 the other it's hard to say action 790 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:47,010 reaction or equal and opposite because 791 00:35:52,430 --> 00:35:49,410 what happens to the two things is 792 00:35:56,810 --> 00:35:52,440 completely different if you throw a a 793 00:35:59,120 --> 00:35:56,820 rock through a glass window yeah it's 794 00:36:01,160 --> 00:35:59,130 it's you know sure you could say when 795 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:01,170 they hit so you've got this equal these 796 00:36:05,090 --> 00:36:02,850 equal forces but what's happening is a 797 00:36:07,580 --> 00:36:05,100 rock is smashing a window which causes 798 00:36:10,370 --> 00:36:07,590 which takes some of the energy away from 799 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:10,380 the the rock so it's a lot more 800 00:36:13,670 --> 00:36:11,970 complicated than just you know there's 801 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:13,680 something going down there's something 802 00:36:17,870 --> 00:36:15,330 pushing up and so they should cancel out 803 00:36:19,580 --> 00:36:17,880 boy you said there that rock hit in the 804 00:36:21,050 --> 00:36:19,590 window and crushing the window it does 805 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:21,060 take away the energy and the momentum 806 00:36:26,090 --> 00:36:23,850 from the rock and it does get crush 807 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:26,100 whatever is beneath but that doesn't 808 00:36:31,130 --> 00:36:28,170 mean that whatever is beneath is going 809 00:36:35,090 --> 00:36:31,140 to continue the momentum after it's been 810 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:35,100 hit and crushed so you do have a you I 811 00:36:40,430 --> 00:36:36,930 mean I just watch one of you youtube 812 00:36:42,790 --> 00:36:40,440 videos where you tried to more was it 813 00:36:46,820 --> 00:36:42,800 demonstrate a breaking effect of having 814 00:36:49,310 --> 00:36:46,830 this mass in motion and you wanted to 815 00:36:52,130 --> 00:36:49,320 show that it didn't slow down but in the 816 00:36:56,630 --> 00:36:52,140 video to me it clearly did slow down but 817 00:37:00,320 --> 00:36:56,640 it was so small slowing down so little 818 00:37:04,220 --> 00:37:00,330 that it was barely noticeable but in my 819 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:04,230 mind having if you look at the as an 820 00:37:08,750 --> 00:37:06,090 analogy looking at the building's as a 821 00:37:11,720 --> 00:37:08,760 fluid in motion a fluid fluid of 822 00:37:14,720 --> 00:37:11,730 building mass and beneath it you have a 823 00:37:16,270 --> 00:37:14,730 steady fluid of building mass and if you 824 00:37:20,990 --> 00:37:16,280 think of it in those terms 825 00:37:23,930 --> 00:37:21,000 it just doesn't well it does that's not 826 00:37:27,190 --> 00:37:23,940 sense does it no it's not a fluid below 827 00:37:29,210 --> 00:37:27,200 it it's it's a series of connected 828 00:37:31,220 --> 00:37:29,220 objects you can think if there's a 829 00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:31,230 series of rigid objects like girders and 830 00:37:35,660 --> 00:37:33,690 columns and concrete slabs so the 831 00:37:37,310 --> 00:37:35,670 concrete slabs always to get broken and 832 00:37:39,820 --> 00:37:37,320 the other stuff is is largely irrelevant 833 00:37:44,060 --> 00:37:39,830 in terms of discussing their collapse 834 00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:44,070 but if you have a structure where if you 835 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:46,650 take out a piece of it the rest of it 836 00:37:51,170 --> 00:37:50,010 collapses you know just as an extreme 837 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:51,180 example like you 838 00:37:54,500 --> 00:37:52,530 got something was like a range like a 839 00:37:55,579 --> 00:37:54,510 house of cards and you you knock it a 840 00:37:58,220 --> 00:37:55,589 little bit and the whole thing collapses 841 00:38:01,010 --> 00:37:58,230 you wouldn't think that is suspicious on 842 00:38:04,790 --> 00:38:01,020 the face of it with the World Trade 843 00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:04,800 Center you require a lot more energy to 844 00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:07,170 start that progressive collapse but once 845 00:38:12,950 --> 00:38:10,290 it started it's still the same type of 846 00:38:15,740 --> 00:38:12,960 thing it is the building is essentially 847 00:38:18,530 --> 00:38:15,750 ripping itself apart the the floor 848 00:38:20,839 --> 00:38:18,540 panels holds the outer walls to the 849 00:38:23,030 --> 00:38:20,849 inner walls the floor panels are on 850 00:38:25,099 --> 00:38:23,040 these little supports that are about you 851 00:38:26,870 --> 00:38:25,109 know this big you know they literally 852 00:38:29,510 --> 00:38:26,880 only like you know six inches across and 853 00:38:34,490 --> 00:38:29,520 like an interesting and they're three 854 00:38:36,319 --> 00:38:34,500 inches out and all out to the little 855 00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:36,329 shelves little little shelves like this 856 00:38:43,069 --> 00:38:39,650 and then the the the truss rests on it 857 00:38:43,970 --> 00:38:43,079 yeah yeah and they're you know if you 858 00:38:45,710 --> 00:38:43,980 look at the connections on the outer 859 00:38:47,210 --> 00:38:45,720 walls the very very small we've got 860 00:38:50,839 --> 00:38:47,220 these ties as well but there's not a lot 861 00:38:55,900 --> 00:38:50,849 there an actual floor panel in the World 862 00:38:58,190 --> 00:38:55,910 Trade Center is designed to hold the 863 00:38:59,710 --> 00:38:58,200 columns away from the wall so it's got 864 00:39:02,270 --> 00:38:59,720 this the stiffness in this direction 865 00:39:04,069 --> 00:39:02,280 horizontally and it's allowed it 866 00:39:06,079 --> 00:39:04,079 designed to allow people to walk on it 867 00:39:08,870 --> 00:39:06,089 and to move furniture around and to like 868 00:39:13,190 --> 00:39:08,880 store things and they're designed to 869 00:39:17,839 --> 00:39:13,200 hold six times their own mass these 870 00:39:19,849 --> 00:39:17,849 floor panels or twelve times I think is 871 00:39:24,049 --> 00:39:19,859 the maximum if you if you do it as a 872 00:39:26,569 --> 00:39:24,059 static load now when you have something 873 00:39:29,750 --> 00:39:26,579 being dropped on those floor panels it's 874 00:39:31,130 --> 00:39:29,760 very very easy to imagine these floor 875 00:39:32,599 --> 00:39:31,140 panel was just being stripped away from 876 00:39:36,829 --> 00:39:32,609 these little connections that they have 877 00:39:38,750 --> 00:39:36,839 on the outer walls mmm that means that 878 00:39:40,819 --> 00:39:38,760 that floor panel is not holding the 879 00:39:42,770 --> 00:39:40,829 outer walk from the inner wall anymore 880 00:39:44,660 --> 00:39:42,780 yeah that's there's no big deal because 881 00:39:45,980 --> 00:39:44,670 you've got all the other ones if you 882 00:39:47,539 --> 00:39:45,990 start getting enough of them stripped 883 00:39:49,099 --> 00:39:47,549 away then you've got these outer walls 884 00:39:50,510 --> 00:39:49,109 with obviously nothing holding them up 885 00:39:52,910 --> 00:39:50,520 and they just fall away because there's 886 00:39:55,910 --> 00:39:52,920 all kinds of stuff going on the inner 887 00:39:58,220 --> 00:39:55,920 core much stronger with internal bracing 888 00:40:01,370 --> 00:39:58,230 that stays up a lot longer you see it in 889 00:40:04,130 --> 00:40:01,380 the collapses you see the inner core not 890 00:40:05,330 --> 00:40:04,140 not being destroyed and actually half of 891 00:40:07,250 --> 00:40:05,340 it remain 892 00:40:09,410 --> 00:40:07,260 after the main mass has reached the 893 00:40:10,850 --> 00:40:09,420 ground and then it collapses which is 894 00:40:12,950 --> 00:40:10,860 problem because of the main mass kind of 895 00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:12,960 spreading out sideways as it hits the 896 00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:17,010 bottom but it's not it's not a case of 897 00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:19,290 something you're going down through 898 00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:21,090 something it's a case of all these 899 00:40:26,990 --> 00:40:24,210 falling things basically knocking these 900 00:40:29,540 --> 00:40:27,000 floor panels off and pushing the columns 901 00:40:31,730 --> 00:40:29,550 sideways the columns didn't fail from 902 00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:31,740 things dropping on top of them that 903 00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:33,090 hardly need anything to the columns they 904 00:40:36,410 --> 00:40:34,650 could they could have they could have 905 00:40:37,970 --> 00:40:36,420 probably supported you know they're the 906 00:40:40,130 --> 00:40:37,980 random things that happen to fall on top 907 00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:40,140 of them well they fell it what happened 908 00:40:44,060 --> 00:40:42,330 was they lost the lateral support which 909 00:40:46,250 --> 00:40:44,070 means that it was then very easy for 910 00:40:48,350 --> 00:40:46,260 them to to snap at their seams they had 911 00:40:49,820 --> 00:40:48,360 these seams which were welded with very 912 00:40:51,260 --> 00:40:49,830 very strong welds but you know when 913 00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:51,270 you're talking about you know tens of 914 00:40:55,790 --> 00:40:53,370 thousands of tons being suddenly applied 915 00:40:58,940 --> 00:40:55,800 sideways with leverage then these things 916 00:41:00,500 --> 00:40:58,950 just mostly the column pieces that were 917 00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:00,510 found in the rubble of the World Trade 918 00:41:04,610 --> 00:41:03,210 Center was straight you see a few 919 00:41:06,410 --> 00:41:04,620 pictures are the ones that are the 920 00:41:07,790 --> 00:41:06,420 famous ones like the one in the memorial 921 00:41:08,630 --> 00:41:07,800 that's got that big Bend and then 922 00:41:11,450 --> 00:41:08,640 there's another one that's kind of like 923 00:41:13,940 --> 00:41:11,460 a big C shape but the vast majority of 924 00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:13,950 the column pieces from the World Trade 925 00:41:18,050 --> 00:41:15,570 Center just perfectly straight and you 926 00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:18,060 see you look at the ends of them and you 927 00:41:22,090 --> 00:41:19,770 see that the welds that just popped out 928 00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:22,100 and this is because they fell apart 929 00:41:26,660 --> 00:41:24,210 because they were being pushed sideways 930 00:41:28,070 --> 00:41:26,670 so the force to do that is it's nothing 931 00:41:29,570 --> 00:41:28,080 at all to do with their supporting force 932 00:41:32,780 --> 00:41:29,580 it's all to do with you know the 933 00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:32,790 building basically falling apart so what 934 00:41:37,670 --> 00:41:34,770 we're actually watching then and you're 935 00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:37,680 know in your view is that the that what 936 00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:40,170 is actually collapsing on top of the 937 00:41:46,790 --> 00:41:44,610 floors is part of the top core of the 938 00:41:49,460 --> 00:41:46,800 building and it's a lot more it's it's 939 00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:49,470 been disconnected completely and let 940 00:41:55,130 --> 00:41:51,770 loose and it's a lot more weight and 941 00:41:58,100 --> 00:41:55,140 amount of force let loose from those 942 00:42:00,770 --> 00:41:58,110 from that those columns hitting the 943 00:42:02,450 --> 00:42:00,780 floors below because those as you say 944 00:42:04,610 --> 00:42:02,460 those columns were so strong and big 945 00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:04,620 that they could basically rush through 946 00:42:10,490 --> 00:42:07,770 everything but what I'm wondering is in 947 00:42:13,790 --> 00:42:10,500 regards to when the collapse is starving 948 00:42:17,450 --> 00:42:13,800 and the initiation of it begins I I 949 00:42:18,589 --> 00:42:17,460 would imagine a a building fire in that 950 00:42:22,099 --> 00:42:18,599 way twist 951 00:42:27,079 --> 00:42:22,109 singing morphing to building over time 952 00:42:30,589 --> 00:42:27,089 and it would you would see it and we 953 00:42:32,299 --> 00:42:30,599 could axis it the reason you can't see 954 00:42:33,950 --> 00:42:32,309 it that you think you can't see it is 955 00:42:36,829 --> 00:42:33,960 that the building is very very very 956 00:42:40,549 --> 00:42:36,839 large so you're actually getting 957 00:42:42,079 --> 00:42:40,559 deflections of several feet in various 958 00:42:45,259 --> 00:42:42,089 places and these are things that you can 959 00:42:48,079 --> 00:42:45,269 see in the NIST report like the the wall 960 00:42:49,069 --> 00:42:48,089 is being pulled in on one side and you 961 00:42:50,660 --> 00:42:49,079 can see there's a deflection I think 962 00:42:53,630 --> 00:42:50,670 it's like six feet or something is quite 963 00:42:56,420 --> 00:42:53,640 a significant amount and then it all 964 00:43:00,319 --> 00:42:56,430 kind of comes in at once but yeah you 965 00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:00,329 are getting these these this warping 966 00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:04,410 these local warping zuv things but the 967 00:43:08,359 --> 00:43:06,210 fires really weren't hot enough to melt 968 00:43:10,549 --> 00:43:08,369 the steel so it just turns into a like a 969 00:43:12,950 --> 00:43:10,559 spaghetti noodle they were hot enough 970 00:43:15,769 --> 00:43:12,960 that it lost its strength and it would 971 00:43:17,599 --> 00:43:15,779 slowly sag and Bend and most of that 972 00:43:19,460 --> 00:43:17,609 happened inside and this is what's 973 00:43:23,779 --> 00:43:19,470 responsible for the curved columns that 974 00:43:26,180 --> 00:43:23,789 you see but the building structure is 975 00:43:28,519 --> 00:43:26,190 fairly rigid you've got all these floors 976 00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:28,529 attached to the core and then you've got 977 00:43:32,420 --> 00:43:30,930 the the Hat truss on top which is this 978 00:43:34,910 --> 00:43:32,430 big structure that sits on top of the 979 00:43:37,339 --> 00:43:34,920 buildings that was there mostly to hold 980 00:43:40,099 --> 00:43:37,349 the antenna up but it also gave a lot of 981 00:43:43,910 --> 00:43:40,109 structural stiffness to the buildings so 982 00:43:48,319 --> 00:43:43,920 when one when one column loses his 983 00:43:50,150 --> 00:43:48,329 strength the it will sag a bit but the 984 00:43:51,890 --> 00:43:50,160 weights from that one column being 985 00:43:53,569 --> 00:43:51,900 caliber I carried by that one column 986 00:43:56,989 --> 00:43:53,579 gets transferred to the other columns 987 00:43:58,160 --> 00:43:56,999 around so it's not like that fails and 988 00:44:00,440 --> 00:43:58,170 then all of a sudden it gets squished 989 00:44:02,029 --> 00:44:00,450 into nothingness it fails it will like 990 00:44:04,339 --> 00:44:02,039 maybe bend a bit oriole like you know 991 00:44:05,989 --> 00:44:04,349 get compressed a little bit and then 992 00:44:08,660 --> 00:44:05,999 because it's not capable of supporting 993 00:44:09,859 --> 00:44:08,670 any weight it basically doesn't exist 994 00:44:11,569 --> 00:44:09,869 from the building's point of view and 995 00:44:13,039 --> 00:44:11,579 the building sags a little bit more and 996 00:44:16,039 --> 00:44:13,049 a little bit more and a little bit more 997 00:44:18,890 --> 00:44:16,049 but eventually what happens is the 998 00:44:21,739 --> 00:44:18,900 accumulation of all these things means 999 00:44:26,029 --> 00:44:21,749 that becomes a point where something 1000 00:44:27,739 --> 00:44:26,039 fails some column fails the building you 1001 00:44:31,130 --> 00:44:27,749 didn't try but you know the building 1002 00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:31,140 structure redistributes a little bit but 1003 00:44:36,260 --> 00:44:32,490 this time there's no 1004 00:44:39,109 --> 00:44:36,270 there isn't enough strength to stop it 1005 00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:39,119 it's reached this tipping point so then 1006 00:44:41,720 --> 00:44:40,650 fail something else fails something else 1007 00:44:44,900 --> 00:44:41,730 fail something else felt very very 1008 00:44:48,170 --> 00:44:44,910 rapidly Bram the entire thing fails 1009 00:44:50,290 --> 00:44:48,180 across like you know a wide section of 1010 00:44:53,359 --> 00:44:50,300 that building and then their collapse 1011 00:44:54,950 --> 00:44:53,369 starts but that but these but a 1012 00:44:56,780 --> 00:44:54,960 spaghettification that you mentioned 1013 00:44:59,900 --> 00:44:56,790 there wouldn't you wouldn't you see 1014 00:45:02,900 --> 00:44:59,910 they're very visually out even outside 1015 00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:02,910 the building that if there is if there 1016 00:45:07,220 --> 00:45:04,890 is a gradual heating of the core and all 1017 00:45:09,740 --> 00:45:07,230 the columns and of the building and of 1018 00:45:12,380 --> 00:45:09,750 itself wouldn't you see it almost sag 1019 00:45:14,870 --> 00:45:12,390 onto itself and thereby actually just 1020 00:45:16,550 --> 00:45:14,880 stopping no if it had if it had done 1021 00:45:18,620 --> 00:45:16,560 enough to sag onto itself that would 1022 00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:18,630 mean the entire structural integrity of 1023 00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:22,290 the building has failed and the it 1024 00:45:27,230 --> 00:45:25,650 wouldn't be able to support itself it 1025 00:45:29,060 --> 00:45:27,240 just doesn't make sense to me because 1026 00:45:30,650 --> 00:45:29,070 you have basically three or different 1027 00:45:33,980 --> 00:45:30,660 the only way you do that is if you 1028 00:45:35,690 --> 00:45:33,990 evenly heated up everything and have 1029 00:45:38,720 --> 00:45:35,700 everything perfectly balanced and had it 1030 00:45:40,339 --> 00:45:38,730 all coming down if it's if the top of 1031 00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:40,349 the building starts to go to one side 1032 00:45:45,710 --> 00:45:43,130 then that means that the forces are 1033 00:45:47,839 --> 00:45:45,720 pushing down sideways essentially on the 1034 00:45:49,730 --> 00:45:47,849 things below them and yeah the they're 1035 00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:49,740 only designed to the building is 1036 00:45:53,690 --> 00:45:52,170 designed to be perfectly vertical once 1037 00:45:56,030 --> 00:45:53,700 things start to not be perfectly 1038 00:45:59,480 --> 00:45:56,040 vertical yeah it's gonna game over 1039 00:46:01,400 --> 00:45:59,490 you've got you know you've got forces on 1040 00:46:02,720 --> 00:46:01,410 the columns that were not designed to 1041 00:46:04,910 --> 00:46:02,730 hole you've got forces on the walls that 1042 00:46:06,620 --> 00:46:04,920 were not designed to to hold and so it's 1043 00:46:07,849 --> 00:46:06,630 gonna start coming apart and this is 1044 00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:07,859 you've got to remember how big this 1045 00:46:12,079 --> 00:46:10,050 building is when you're looking at 1046 00:46:15,109 --> 00:46:12,089 things you can't compare it to a smaller 1047 00:46:18,650 --> 00:46:15,119 building it's 200 feet by 200 feet and 1048 00:46:21,740 --> 00:46:18,660 what's 1,300 feet high so it's it's an 1049 00:46:26,810 --> 00:46:21,750 immense building so you are seeing these 1050 00:46:29,240 --> 00:46:26,820 effects of things you know metal giving 1051 00:46:32,810 --> 00:46:29,250 way and the building sagging a bit but 1052 00:46:35,359 --> 00:46:32,820 it's it doesn't look like very much from 1053 00:46:38,839 --> 00:46:35,369 far out there you know look at the the 1054 00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:38,849 NIST report and they the images that 1055 00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:40,650 where they ship this they show their 1056 00:46:44,900 --> 00:46:43,170 deflection of the building and they show 1057 00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:44,910 are the things like internal floors that 1058 00:46:48,170 --> 00:46:46,170 have fallen 1059 00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:48,180 and then they will discuss how the Hat 1060 00:46:52,759 --> 00:46:50,130 truss and the columns redistribute the 1061 00:46:54,710 --> 00:46:52,769 load but you know eventually you get to 1062 00:46:58,250 --> 00:46:54,720 a point where you can't redistribute the 1063 00:47:01,250 --> 00:46:58,260 load mmm people laugh at the example of 1064 00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:01,260 a can when you stand on a cam you know 1065 00:47:07,130 --> 00:47:04,890 you weigh like way work 170 yeah I can 1066 00:47:09,349 --> 00:47:07,140 just about manage to balance on this cam 1067 00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:09,359 probably probably not like what sir just 1068 00:47:13,849 --> 00:47:10,650 a barrel in when I went when I weighed 1069 00:47:15,259 --> 00:47:13,859 150 I could balance on the cam but all 1070 00:47:18,710 --> 00:47:15,269 you're going to do to make this can 1071 00:47:21,589 --> 00:47:18,720 collapse just do a tiny little thing and 1072 00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:21,599 that one failure immediately propagates 1073 00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:23,690 around every single bit of the cam 1074 00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:25,410 that's a good example 1075 00:47:29,599 --> 00:47:28,170 yeah it's it people don't like this 1076 00:47:32,809 --> 00:47:29,609 example because they say oh well you 1077 00:47:35,450 --> 00:47:32,819 know a cans you know you should pop up 1078 00:47:37,730 --> 00:47:35,460 another cam but then you start having to 1079 00:47:40,430 --> 00:47:37,740 get into the details of explaining the 1080 00:47:43,700 --> 00:47:40,440 square-cube law where as things get 1081 00:47:46,730 --> 00:47:43,710 bigger their strength increases as a 1082 00:47:49,460 --> 00:47:46,740 square of the size but the weight 1083 00:47:52,309 --> 00:47:49,470 increases as a cube of the size which is 1084 00:47:54,170 --> 00:47:52,319 another complex physics phenomena that 1085 00:47:58,430 --> 00:47:54,180 is difficult to explain to people and 1086 00:48:03,019 --> 00:47:58,440 it's not intuitive so that's well that's 1087 00:48:04,759 --> 00:48:03,029 how there's a famous analogy where if 1088 00:48:08,299 --> 00:48:04,769 you're dropping animals down a mine 1089 00:48:09,650 --> 00:48:08,309 shaft which is something that happened 1090 00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:09,660 in the past because animals were 1091 00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:11,130 wondering to mine shafts and then they 1092 00:48:14,299 --> 00:48:12,450 would they would find animals at the 1093 00:48:17,740 --> 00:48:14,309 bottom of the mine shaft and they would 1094 00:48:23,829 --> 00:48:17,750 say like I think it was like a mouse 1095 00:48:28,220 --> 00:48:23,839 bounces a dog breaks and horse splashes 1096 00:48:29,690 --> 00:48:28,230 do you got you know you've got yeah 1097 00:48:33,559 --> 00:48:29,700 similar types of things you they're 1098 00:48:35,569 --> 00:48:33,569 animals but because one of them you know 1099 00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:35,579 it's like 50 times as long that means 1100 00:48:42,109 --> 00:48:38,970 it's 50 cubed times the weight but the 1101 00:48:44,450 --> 00:48:42,119 actual strength of that thing is only 50 1102 00:48:47,329 --> 00:48:44,460 squared and the reason it's the square 1103 00:48:50,599 --> 00:48:47,339 is that it's proportional to the cross 1104 00:48:52,789 --> 00:48:50,609 section if you think of you know a pen 1105 00:48:54,890 --> 00:48:52,799 something like this the strength of this 1106 00:48:57,680 --> 00:48:54,900 pen isn't anything to do with how long 1107 00:48:59,509 --> 00:48:57,690 it is but how long it is is related to 1108 00:49:00,290 --> 00:48:59,519 what it weighs the strength of the pen 1109 00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:00,300 is only relate 1110 00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:02,610 to the cross-section so it's only 1111 00:49:09,830 --> 00:49:06,810 related to the square of of the other 1112 00:49:11,720 --> 00:49:09,840 subject but you know this is this is a 1113 00:49:14,030 --> 00:49:11,730 challenge that I have in explaining 1114 00:49:17,720 --> 00:49:14,040 things to pick four square cube law is 1115 00:49:20,540 --> 00:49:17,730 not intuitive and what this of this that 1116 00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:20,550 are easy to explain the square cube law 1117 00:49:30,470 --> 00:49:26,010 yeah there's a good example of it in use 1118 00:49:32,780 --> 00:49:30,480 on the threaded meta Bank on building a 1119 00:49:35,030 --> 00:49:32,790 physical model of the World Trade Center 1120 00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:35,040 I can't remember the exact link but I 1121 00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:36,570 shall give it to you and put it in the 1122 00:49:43,940 --> 00:49:40,010 description but this Chinese company 1123 00:49:45,740 --> 00:49:43,950 wanted to simulate a building in an 1124 00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:45,750 earthquake so they built a scale model 1125 00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:48,450 of the building and it was a 1/10 size 1126 00:49:54,710 --> 00:49:51,450 scale model and so the original building 1127 00:49:56,270 --> 00:49:54,720 was you know 400 feet and they built a 1128 00:49:58,450 --> 00:49:56,280 40-foot high model which is pretty 1129 00:50:01,720 --> 00:49:58,460 impressive and they put it on a 1130 00:50:04,490 --> 00:50:01,730 earthquake table which would simulate a 1131 00:50:05,900 --> 00:50:04,500 magnitude 9 earthquake and they built 1132 00:50:07,970 --> 00:50:05,910 this really nice scale model 1133 00:50:10,210 --> 00:50:07,980 it's basically of like Meccano type 1134 00:50:14,390 --> 00:50:10,220 things these little metal bolts and 1135 00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:14,400 metal pieces and girders but then in 1136 00:50:19,970 --> 00:50:16,770 order to make it realistic they then had 1137 00:50:23,090 --> 00:50:19,980 to add about 9 times the the models 1138 00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:23,100 weight in lead bricks which they've put 1139 00:50:28,190 --> 00:50:25,170 on every single floor to make it 1140 00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:28,200 realistic now people who think that you 1141 00:50:30,710 --> 00:50:29,610 know if you just simply scale something 1142 00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:30,720 that would work 1143 00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:31,890 you know people people think that if you 1144 00:50:36,020 --> 00:50:34,050 scale it you can just do a test on that 1145 00:50:38,510 --> 00:50:36,030 thing and that thing scales to a larger 1146 00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:38,520 thing if they taken this this scale 1147 00:50:41,240 --> 00:50:40,290 model without these lead bricks and then 1148 00:50:43,580 --> 00:50:41,250 just shaking that it would have been 1149 00:50:44,630 --> 00:50:43,590 fine they could have done a magnitude 12 1150 00:50:46,730 --> 00:50:44,640 earthquake and it would have been 1151 00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:46,740 perfectly fine because of the 1152 00:50:53,270 --> 00:50:50,010 square-cube law in only answer because 1153 00:50:57,410 --> 00:50:53,280 it it's it it is size has been reduced 1154 00:50:59,920 --> 00:50:57,420 by two 1/10 they couldn't reduce the 1155 00:51:03,950 --> 00:50:59,930 size by 1/10 they had to reduce the 1156 00:51:08,060 --> 00:51:03,960 weight by a proportion which is is I 1157 00:51:09,710 --> 00:51:08,070 think it's the square root of square 1158 00:51:12,020 --> 00:51:09,720 root of 100 divided by the square root 1159 00:51:16,370 --> 00:51:12,030 of 10 something like that 1160 00:51:18,670 --> 00:51:16,380 which was a test three so the size of 1161 00:51:21,020 --> 00:51:18,680 this of the object in and of itself 1162 00:51:23,660 --> 00:51:21,030 regardless of how you're modeling it the 1163 00:51:26,180 --> 00:51:23,670 size will always change the behavior and 1164 00:51:28,940 --> 00:51:26,190 because the first reaction to the 1165 00:51:33,770 --> 00:51:28,950 physical that the the building would 1166 00:51:36,890 --> 00:51:33,780 react differently very differently 1167 00:51:38,930 --> 00:51:36,900 very good guy with what you'd ma-ya with 1168 00:51:47,510 --> 00:51:38,940 a physical scale model like I have a 1169 00:51:53,090 --> 00:51:47,520 scale model right here this is about a 1 1170 00:51:55,100 --> 00:51:53,100 foot so 1 1300 of the actual scale size 1171 00:51:59,240 --> 00:51:55,110 of the World Trade Center and yet this 1172 00:52:00,800 --> 00:51:59,250 scale model is vastly stronger than the 1173 00:52:02,570 --> 00:52:00,810 actual World Trade Center model look I 1174 00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:02,580 can take this model and I can drop it 1175 00:52:06,860 --> 00:52:04,290 from a height of like you know its own 1176 00:52:08,870 --> 00:52:06,870 height and it lands on on whatever and 1177 00:52:10,490 --> 00:52:08,880 you nothing happens I can throw this 1178 00:52:13,340 --> 00:52:10,500 thing which is equivalent of thousands 1179 00:52:15,740 --> 00:52:13,350 of tons yeah scale and it just bounces 1180 00:52:18,110 --> 00:52:15,750 off yeah because very very small scale 1181 00:52:20,150 --> 00:52:18,120 models are very very strong now if I was 1182 00:52:22,460 --> 00:52:20,160 to scale this and make it the right 1183 00:52:24,650 --> 00:52:22,470 weight it actually would be impossible 1184 00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:24,660 in this universe it would be denser than 1185 00:52:28,970 --> 00:52:26,850 the densest known element in the world 1186 00:52:31,670 --> 00:52:28,980 if you had a scale model of the World 1187 00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:31,680 Trade Center tower that was 6 feet high 1188 00:52:38,330 --> 00:52:34,050 I think if you made it out of solid gold 1189 00:52:42,410 --> 00:52:38,340 like it was a 1 foot by 12 foot solid 1190 00:52:45,170 --> 00:52:42,420 gold cuboid that would be about the 1191 00:52:47,630 --> 00:52:45,180 right weight so you can't actually build 1192 00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:47,640 a scale model of the World Trade Center 1193 00:52:51,950 --> 00:52:50,010 and simulate it exactly unless you build 1194 00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:51,960 it you had to build it over 100 feet 1195 00:52:57,200 --> 00:52:53,930 high and add all these lead bricks 1196 00:53:01,910 --> 00:52:57,210 because it doesn't work with your videos 1197 00:53:04,070 --> 00:53:01,920 and yes I've done it with wood and what 1198 00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:04,080 I'm doing there is I'm demonstrating one 1199 00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:06,450 aspect of the collapse 1200 00:53:12,710 --> 00:53:08,850 I'm not demonstrating the entire thing 1201 00:53:17,420 --> 00:53:12,720 because if you look at my my thing the 1202 00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:17,430 model I do nothing no the the floor 1203 00:53:23,870 --> 00:53:20,970 panels break up there's very little in 1204 00:53:25,430 --> 00:53:23,880 terms of dust or anything like that I'm 1205 00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:25,440 not simulating in the actual 1206 00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:28,410 perhaps nothing really breaks there's no 1207 00:53:36,130 --> 00:53:30,690 there's no strong connections between 1208 00:53:41,720 --> 00:53:36,140 things and what I'm simulating there is 1209 00:53:44,060 --> 00:53:41,730 when a floor panel can only support six 1210 00:53:46,970 --> 00:53:44,070 to twelve times its own weight and you 1211 00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:46,980 start a collapse by just offsetting the 1212 00:53:51,380 --> 00:53:48,450 top of the building a little bit so it 1213 00:53:55,190 --> 00:53:51,390 falls out of line with the columns then 1214 00:53:56,870 --> 00:53:55,200 the entire building will collapse so he 1215 00:53:59,090 --> 00:53:56,880 demonstrates that one aspect of it it 1216 00:54:00,530 --> 00:53:59,100 doesn't demonstrate you know how exactly 1217 00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:00,540 that happened in the case of the World 1218 00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:03,450 Trade Center and you can't do it with a 1219 00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:05,970 scale model you had to do it with a 1220 00:54:11,570 --> 00:54:08,850 model that replicates some of the 1221 00:54:14,900 --> 00:54:11,580 conditions so the condition I chose to 1222 00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:14,910 replicate was the floor panels support 1223 00:54:19,910 --> 00:54:18,090 six to twelve times their own weight and 1224 00:54:22,610 --> 00:54:19,920 I tested that by putting six fourth 1225 00:54:25,010 --> 00:54:22,620 floor panels on one of them and doing 12 1226 00:54:27,410 --> 00:54:25,020 very carefully or dropping six from a 1227 00:54:29,810 --> 00:54:27,420 certain height but you know I also did 1228 00:54:31,820 --> 00:54:29,820 things like I threw a spanner a wrench 1229 00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:31,830 at the side of the building and if it 1230 00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:33,570 had been an accurate scale model then 1231 00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:34,890 that wrench would have just gone right 1232 00:54:38,660 --> 00:54:36,210 through it the same way the planes did 1233 00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:38,670 it just bounced off so it's obviously 1234 00:54:42,380 --> 00:54:40,410 not a perfect scale model of the World 1235 00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:42,390 Trade Center except in that one aspect 1236 00:54:47,450 --> 00:54:45,690 the one aspect where you've got these 1237 00:54:49,610 --> 00:54:47,460 these panels which can only support a 1238 00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:49,620 certain amount of weight and when they 1239 00:54:54,590 --> 00:54:52,410 fall the building's fall with the I 1240 00:54:58,340 --> 00:54:54,600 totally see what you're saying 1241 00:55:02,000 --> 00:54:58,350 the but in regards to the building 1242 00:55:04,370 --> 00:55:02,010 changing and morphing during the before 1243 00:55:06,710 --> 00:55:04,380 the collapse in it of itself wouldn't 1244 00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:06,720 you see windows breaking all around the 1245 00:55:12,980 --> 00:55:10,530 building gradually like completely with 1246 00:55:18,050 --> 00:55:12,990 the building changing that much in its 1247 00:55:21,350 --> 00:55:18,060 symmetry wouldn't you see that as you 1248 00:55:22,970 --> 00:55:21,360 mean other towers both of them both 1249 00:55:26,210 --> 00:55:22,980 towers that you would basically see 1250 00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:26,220 windows breaking if the building was 1251 00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:28,890 actually twisting and changing in 1252 00:55:35,090 --> 00:55:32,450 regards to well you can need him look at 1253 00:55:37,070 --> 00:55:35,100 here he wasn't it wasn't twisting I 1254 00:55:39,079 --> 00:55:37,080 wouldn't say it was twisting at all it 1255 00:55:41,900 --> 00:55:39,089 was sagging in some areas 1256 00:55:42,829 --> 00:55:41,910 and the outer walls were being pulled in 1257 00:55:44,450 --> 00:55:42,839 a little bit 1258 00:55:46,069 --> 00:55:44,460 it really wasn't sagging in a wind 1259 00:55:49,549 --> 00:55:46,079 noticeable like I say the load transfer 1260 00:55:50,749 --> 00:55:49,559 would go to the other things and that 1261 00:55:52,969 --> 00:55:50,759 they're still holding at the top of the 1262 00:55:55,279 --> 00:55:52,979 building but an individual column Willis 1263 00:55:56,749 --> 00:55:55,289 Act which means like a floor will start 1264 00:55:58,759 --> 00:55:56,759 to sag a little bit internally and you 1265 00:56:01,700 --> 00:55:58,769 can see there are photos of these bowed 1266 00:56:04,130 --> 00:56:01,710 floors internally now the exterior of 1267 00:56:05,870 --> 00:56:04,140 the building has all these columns and 1268 00:56:08,870 --> 00:56:05,880 you know obviously a lot of them were 1269 00:56:11,749 --> 00:56:08,880 missing at the time so it's there's a 1270 00:56:15,859 --> 00:56:11,759 lot of damage there but you do see this 1271 00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:15,869 inward pull of the face of the building 1272 00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:18,210 and you see a bowing of the entire 1273 00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:21,210 building over several floors now why 1274 00:56:26,599 --> 00:56:23,930 doesn't that make the built the windows 1275 00:56:28,130 --> 00:56:26,609 break well it's because it's the actual 1276 00:56:29,479 --> 00:56:28,140 angle it's doing isn't that much it's 1277 00:56:31,670 --> 00:56:29,489 like someone took the bottom of the 1278 00:56:33,349 --> 00:56:31,680 window and they pulled it in like three 1279 00:56:35,420 --> 00:56:33,359 inches and then the window below that 1280 00:56:37,069 --> 00:56:35,430 got pulled in another three inches when 1281 00:56:39,079 --> 00:56:37,079 they're below pulled in no three inches 1282 00:56:41,569 --> 00:56:39,089 it wasn't like he just like twisted the 1283 00:56:43,219 --> 00:56:41,579 entire structure and I think there were 1284 00:56:45,859 --> 00:56:43,229 a few windows that were broken but you 1285 00:56:47,359 --> 00:56:45,869 know they're the windows on the exterior 1286 00:56:48,859 --> 00:56:47,369 of the World Trade Center were obviously 1287 00:56:50,420 --> 00:56:48,869 designed to be very strong like 1288 00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:50,430 withstand hurricane force winds and 1289 00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:52,650 people falling against done things like 1290 00:56:58,339 --> 00:56:55,650 that so yeah II just didn't write 1291 00:56:59,930 --> 00:56:58,349 because he didn't Bend that much mmm 1292 00:57:01,579 --> 00:56:59,940 well people did actually break those 1293 00:57:03,859 --> 00:57:01,589 windows at the top themselves though 1294 00:57:08,329 --> 00:57:03,869 that's pretty impressive when what the 1295 00:57:10,039 --> 00:57:08,339 year they yeah yeah but just B just 1296 00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:10,049 being able to breathe at the top I mean 1297 00:57:14,450 --> 00:57:12,210 that they actually managed to do that if 1298 00:57:17,239 --> 00:57:14,460 the building yeah I'm just just thinking 1299 00:57:20,630 --> 00:57:17,249 about how yeah they can't but kind of 1300 00:57:22,309 --> 00:57:20,640 bit that strong if the mash it with a 1301 00:57:27,620 --> 00:57:22,319 fire extinguisher or something very 1302 00:57:31,430 --> 00:57:27,630 heavy yeah there is a there was when 1303 00:57:34,309 --> 00:57:31,440 they did the heat mapping of of the 1304 00:57:38,180 --> 00:57:34,319 buildings off of the collapse mm-hmm you 1305 00:57:41,809 --> 00:57:38,190 could see identical heat signatures from 1306 00:57:43,759 --> 00:57:41,819 all three buildings well I was right to 1307 00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:43,769 call there were different shapes they 1308 00:57:48,380 --> 00:57:45,690 were less same temperature different yes 1309 00:57:51,069 --> 00:57:48,390 yes exactly they were safe same same 1310 00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:51,079 temperatures and but the same type of 1311 00:57:57,830 --> 00:57:52,770 signatures in regard 1312 00:58:00,590 --> 00:57:57,840 - well basically showing that something 1313 00:58:02,450 --> 00:58:00,600 was really hot and it's it's been well a 1314 00:58:05,690 --> 00:58:02,460 lot for thing that was really hot was 1315 00:58:07,940 --> 00:58:05,700 fire but how do you sustain fire 1316 00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:07,950 underground that way where it's there's 1317 00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:10,370 basically not much oxygen or anything to 1318 00:58:17,420 --> 00:58:14,730 then and those photos were taking I 1319 00:58:18,770 --> 00:58:17,430 think like two or three days after the 1320 00:58:20,300 --> 00:58:18,780 collapse so it wasn't that far into it 1321 00:58:22,820 --> 00:58:20,310 and they cooled down pretty rapidly 1322 00:58:25,750 --> 00:58:22,830 after that obviously there were fires 1323 00:58:27,980 --> 00:58:25,760 still burning for like like over a month 1324 00:58:30,020 --> 00:58:27,990 in the World Trade Center and there were 1325 00:58:34,370 --> 00:58:30,030 reports of you know pockets of very very 1326 00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:34,380 hot regions but the the the avarice data 1327 00:58:40,670 --> 00:58:37,410 which you're referring to essentially 1328 00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:40,680 shows fire now if you there were some 1329 00:58:43,670 --> 00:58:42,210 other hotspots that aren't in the World 1330 00:58:46,070 --> 00:58:43,680 Trade Center site and they mentioned 1331 00:58:48,430 --> 00:58:46,080 this in the description of the avarice 1332 00:58:51,140 --> 00:58:48,440 image this was an image done with this 1333 00:58:54,070 --> 00:58:51,150 multispectral camera which they flew 1334 00:58:56,630 --> 00:58:54,080 over I think it was a navy camera and 1335 00:58:58,760 --> 00:58:56,640 they they say you know the red spots 1336 00:59:01,730 --> 00:58:58,770 outside the World Trade Center site our 1337 00:59:05,420 --> 00:59:01,740 heating system vents see we're getting 1338 00:59:08,090 --> 00:59:05,430 these red spots in New York City that 1339 00:59:10,550 --> 00:59:08,100 were not much not much cooler than the 1340 00:59:12,170 --> 00:59:10,560 the yellow spots and the World Trade 1341 00:59:16,570 --> 00:59:12,180 Center site and that was simply just 1342 00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:16,580 from the exhaust from heating systems in 1343 00:59:25,460 --> 00:59:23,490 in buildings and an actual fire itself 1344 00:59:27,980 --> 00:59:25,470 is very very hot the flames very hot and 1345 00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:27,990 what it's measuring is the temperature 1346 00:59:33,290 --> 00:59:30,210 of those flames and those those gases 1347 00:59:36,550 --> 00:59:33,300 coming out it doesn't mean that all the 1348 00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:36,560 methyl underground has been heated up to 1349 00:59:41,150 --> 00:59:38,850 you know a thousand degrees centigrade 1350 00:59:44,630 --> 00:59:41,160 or anything like that it just means that 1351 00:59:46,700 --> 00:59:44,640 there is a fire and if you have if you 1352 00:59:48,200 --> 00:59:46,710 if it was just a big bonfire down there 1353 00:59:50,900 --> 00:59:48,210 it would probably actually look a lot 1354 00:59:52,700 --> 00:59:50,910 hotter you know just it looks it looks 1355 00:59:54,410 --> 00:59:52,710 kind of patchy because it's largely 1356 00:59:56,990 --> 00:59:54,420 underground and what you're seeing is 1357 01:00:01,400 --> 00:59:57,000 the the hot gases coming out and heating 1358 01:00:03,530 --> 01:00:01,410 things in that immediate area so I don't 1359 01:00:06,470 --> 01:00:03,540 think that is very suspicious and I also 1360 01:00:10,160 --> 01:00:06,480 don't think it's evidence of thermite 1361 01:00:11,750 --> 01:00:10,170 burning because if there was thermite 1362 01:00:14,450 --> 01:00:11,760 burning you would have to have thousands 1363 01:00:17,540 --> 01:00:14,460 of tons constantly burning for it to 1364 01:00:20,500 --> 01:00:17,550 keep up keep it up on our because the 1365 01:00:24,170 --> 01:00:20,510 light burns very fast and it contains 1366 01:00:26,980 --> 01:00:24,180 its own oxygen so it would just all burn 1367 01:00:30,109 --> 01:00:26,990 up whereas the rubble under the pile 1368 01:00:32,569 --> 01:00:30,119 doesn't have its own oxygen so it just 1369 01:00:34,579 --> 01:00:32,579 burns as it gets uncovered or as oxygen 1370 01:00:36,859 --> 01:00:34,589 comes through so yeah this kind of 1371 01:00:39,650 --> 01:00:36,869 smoldering fire point ends at first but 1372 01:00:43,370 --> 01:00:39,660 you know eventually if smoldering mhmmm 1373 01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:43,380 interesting theory the the the fires 1374 01:00:49,130 --> 01:00:46,890 though I know I'm quite sure weren't put 1375 01:00:55,250 --> 01:00:49,140 out the last fires underground were put 1376 01:00:59,300 --> 01:00:55,260 out until Christmas yeah one so they 1377 01:01:01,880 --> 01:00:59,310 were burning for months but the which is 1378 01:01:03,980 --> 01:01:01,890 not impressive entered there are lots of 1379 01:01:08,660 --> 01:01:03,990 sites where fires have burned for months 1380 01:01:10,579 --> 01:01:08,670 for example rubbish dumps yeah is a very 1381 01:01:13,400 --> 01:01:10,589 common place where you a fire get 1382 01:01:14,900 --> 01:01:13,410 started and can burn for months and you 1383 01:01:16,370 --> 01:01:14,910 know obviously like abandoned coal mines 1384 01:01:17,660 --> 01:01:16,380 but you can have expect that but it's 1385 01:01:19,910 --> 01:01:17,670 the same type of thing there's a source 1386 01:01:21,500 --> 01:01:19,920 of fuel which is underground which is 1387 01:01:23,020 --> 01:01:21,510 slowly burning or quite intensely 1388 01:01:26,329 --> 01:01:23,030 burning if it gets a lot of oxygen 1389 01:01:27,980 --> 01:01:26,339 there's if you actually think about how 1390 01:01:31,430 --> 01:01:27,990 much combustibles there are under there 1391 01:01:35,030 --> 01:01:31,440 and you know how much is burnt it just 1392 01:01:36,980 --> 01:01:35,040 isn't done but the building's the 1393 01:01:41,240 --> 01:01:36,990 burning at that's in the top sections 1394 01:01:44,900 --> 01:01:41,250 mmm but the top sections being in my 1395 01:01:46,280 --> 01:01:44,910 mind what would probably lay on top of 1396 01:01:48,230 --> 01:01:46,290 the buildings had collapsed 1397 01:01:50,540 --> 01:01:48,240 well there's there there were still 1398 01:01:53,180 --> 01:01:50,550 several floors I think 13 in the case of 1399 01:01:55,809 --> 01:01:53,190 World Trade Center one and some more and 1400 01:01:58,309 --> 01:01:55,819 we'll say try Center two on top of that 1401 01:02:00,500 --> 01:01:58,319 so if you're going to be thinking of it 1402 01:02:02,990 --> 01:02:00,510 in terms of a fire sandwich you've got 1403 01:02:06,109 --> 01:02:03,000 this huge amount of debris underneath 1404 01:02:07,609 --> 01:02:06,119 and then you've got the fire floors and 1405 01:02:10,040 --> 01:02:07,619 then you've got the the floors that were 1406 01:02:12,530 --> 01:02:10,050 not on fire on top of that but the whole 1407 01:02:15,559 --> 01:02:12,540 thing kind of got gets mixed together as 1408 01:02:18,620 --> 01:02:15,569 it falls and yeah fire isn't something 1409 01:02:20,300 --> 01:02:18,630 where you know there's a fire up there 1410 01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:20,310 and you gets transferred down 1411 01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:23,330 here if all kinds of things start fires 1412 01:02:28,820 --> 01:02:26,490 and there was thousands of individual 1413 01:02:33,230 --> 01:02:28,830 little fires in the pile which can then 1414 01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:33,240 spread it to other things the testimony 1415 01:02:42,050 --> 01:02:37,730 from the firemen and from the one of the 1416 01:02:45,890 --> 01:02:42,060 emergency scene Chiefs can't remember 1417 01:02:47,810 --> 01:02:45,900 his name but he he testified to the fact 1418 01:02:51,800 --> 01:02:47,820 that there were you know underground 1419 01:02:55,190 --> 01:02:51,810 molten steel and the that the intensity 1420 01:02:59,210 --> 01:02:55,200 of these fires were so hot that the it 1421 01:03:02,240 --> 01:02:59,220 was like opening opening up a box with 1422 01:03:06,950 --> 01:03:02,250 lava and certain places have you 1423 01:03:09,230 --> 01:03:06,960 explored these subject - yeah and I I 1424 01:03:13,790 --> 01:03:09,240 think what they saw almost certainly was 1425 01:03:17,510 --> 01:03:13,800 not steel molten steel is ridiculously 1426 01:03:19,850 --> 01:03:17,520 hot for a start if it's molten if it's 1427 01:03:22,010 --> 01:03:19,860 flowing you know it's hotter than the 1428 01:03:23,510 --> 01:03:22,020 hottest steel you've ever heated up with 1429 01:03:27,620 --> 01:03:23,520 a blowtorch or something it's actually 1430 01:03:29,660 --> 01:03:27,630 white-hot and there's two things because 1431 01:03:31,580 --> 01:03:29,670 it's white-hot one is it cools down very 1432 01:03:33,710 --> 01:03:31,590 quickly molten steel does not stay 1433 01:03:36,710 --> 01:03:33,720 molten very long because it is so hot 1434 01:03:38,600 --> 01:03:36,720 it's basically radiating conducting heat 1435 01:03:40,490 --> 01:03:38,610 away very very rapidly the hotter 1436 01:03:42,380 --> 01:03:40,500 something is the quicker it cools down 1437 01:03:46,490 --> 01:03:42,390 there's this very steep curve of things 1438 01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:46,500 cooling down molten steel is also so hot 1439 01:03:50,810 --> 01:03:49,410 because it's molten that it sets fire to 1440 01:03:52,340 --> 01:03:50,820 everything around it and burns 1441 01:03:56,570 --> 01:03:52,350 everything around it so it becomes very 1442 01:03:59,240 --> 01:03:56,580 very energetic if you ever seen a Andry 1443 01:04:01,160 --> 01:03:59,250 accident where they spill the steel on 1444 01:04:03,490 --> 01:04:01,170 the floor it's just like it's like 1445 01:04:06,950 --> 01:04:03,500 sparks going everywhere it's crazy thing 1446 01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:06,960 so I think what they describe doesn't 1447 01:04:12,500 --> 01:04:09,570 really fit molten steel which is this 1448 01:04:14,030 --> 01:04:12,510 this white-hot highly energetic material 1449 01:04:16,310 --> 01:04:14,040 it more fits 1450 01:04:20,330 --> 01:04:16,320 something less energetic like molten 1451 01:04:22,160 --> 01:04:20,340 aluminum or molten let there was lots of 1452 01:04:24,770 --> 01:04:22,170 lead in the building from a variety of 1453 01:04:26,570 --> 01:04:24,780 things like uninterruptible power 1454 01:04:29,840 --> 01:04:26,580 supplies they had lots of batteries in 1455 01:04:32,790 --> 01:04:29,850 the building wasn't very simple things 1456 01:04:34,790 --> 01:04:32,800 it could even be molten glass like glass 1457 01:04:37,260 --> 01:04:34,800 with a temperature of molten glasses but 1458 01:04:39,720 --> 01:04:37,270 you know if something like that is multi 1459 01:04:42,420 --> 01:04:39,730 and melting and flowing or in you know 1460 01:04:44,610 --> 01:04:42,430 it could be like aluminum with a bunch 1461 01:04:48,990 --> 01:04:44,620 of embers on it I think this is one 1462 01:04:50,490 --> 01:04:49,000 actually happened with the the goals and 1463 01:04:53,460 --> 01:04:50,500 things that you see flying from the 1464 01:04:55,260 --> 01:04:53,470 building earlier is it's molten aluminum 1465 01:04:57,410 --> 01:04:55,270 but it's carrying out the fire with it 1466 01:04:59,940 --> 01:04:57,420 so it's carrying out all these embers 1467 01:05:02,340 --> 01:04:59,950 okay you had the sparkly stuff that goes 1468 01:05:03,630 --> 01:05:02,350 yeah yeah maybe if you look at that very 1469 01:05:05,400 --> 01:05:03,640 closely you can see there's actually a 1470 01:05:06,840 --> 01:05:05,410 bunch of dark things falling as well 1471 01:05:09,390 --> 01:05:06,850 which I think are the actual just 1472 01:05:11,940 --> 01:05:09,400 aluminum without the embers in it but I 1473 01:05:13,740 --> 01:05:11,950 think this stuff underground and people 1474 01:05:17,250 --> 01:05:13,750 saying they saw a river of molten steel 1475 01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:17,260 I think they meant essentially I just 1476 01:05:21,090 --> 01:05:19,450 saw a river of molten something that 1477 01:05:23,010 --> 01:05:21,100 kind of looked like metal they didn't 1478 01:05:24,540 --> 01:05:23,020 know if it was metal they're just 1479 01:05:25,980 --> 01:05:24,550 assuming it's metal and they just said 1480 01:05:27,890 --> 01:05:25,990 steel because that's the first metal 1481 01:05:32,430 --> 01:05:27,900 that came to mind 1482 01:05:34,410 --> 01:05:32,440 you know firefighters don't generally 1483 01:05:36,990 --> 01:05:34,420 come across rivers of molten steel so 1484 01:05:39,810 --> 01:05:37,000 would a firefighter know what a river of 1485 01:05:41,610 --> 01:05:39,820 molten steel looks like yeah you could 1486 01:05:43,800 --> 01:05:41,620 you could argue that they should because 1487 01:05:46,320 --> 01:05:43,810 they're fighting fires but since you 1488 01:05:49,590 --> 01:05:46,330 don't get molten steel in the vast 1489 01:05:51,410 --> 01:05:49,600 majority of fires why would a New York 1490 01:05:54,510 --> 01:05:51,420 firefighter be familiar with what a 1491 01:05:56,850 --> 01:05:54,520 underground river of steel actually 1492 01:05:58,440 --> 01:05:56,860 looks like when it didn't actually look 1493 01:05:59,550 --> 01:05:58,450 like what they described because if it 1494 01:06:03,270 --> 01:05:59,560 wasn't more than steel it would be 1495 01:06:05,010 --> 01:06:03,280 exploding everywhere yeah yeah there's 1496 01:06:06,780 --> 01:06:05,020 been quite a lack of images and videos 1497 01:06:11,030 --> 01:06:06,790 of it as well but yeah that's the other 1498 01:06:13,410 --> 01:06:11,040 thing they didn't find these lakes of of 1499 01:06:16,440 --> 01:06:13,420 steel if you've got a river of molten 1500 01:06:20,310 --> 01:06:16,450 steel and these rivers have been flowing 1501 01:06:24,180 --> 01:06:20,320 for weeks then you're gonna have this 1502 01:06:26,400 --> 01:06:24,190 huge lake of Steel molten steel at the 1503 01:06:27,600 --> 01:06:26,410 bottom of the building that's just like 1504 01:06:30,900 --> 01:06:27,610 this pure steel because everything's 1505 01:06:32,190 --> 01:06:30,910 gonna float on it and you know they 1506 01:06:34,980 --> 01:06:32,200 didn't find anything like that 1507 01:06:36,780 --> 01:06:34,990 yeah you don't see that in in any of the 1508 01:06:40,680 --> 01:06:36,790 recovery photographs you don't see these 1509 01:06:42,540 --> 01:06:40,690 you see like barely melted guns and 1510 01:06:45,030 --> 01:06:42,550 things like that yeah you don't see 1511 01:06:46,890 --> 01:06:45,040 melted steel you don't see beams where 1512 01:06:48,750 --> 01:06:46,900 the end has been melted off 1513 01:06:51,810 --> 01:06:48,760 you don't see like something like with a 1514 01:06:54,420 --> 01:06:51,820 puddle of Steel like you know even if 1515 01:06:56,250 --> 01:06:54,430 you had like you know a hundred pound or 1516 01:06:58,710 --> 01:06:56,260 a thousand pounds of steel which is like 1517 01:07:00,690 --> 01:06:58,720 a bit of a girder yeah where is it where 1518 01:07:02,850 --> 01:07:00,700 is this big bat of steel where did it 1519 01:07:05,640 --> 01:07:02,860 end up you do you have something that 1520 01:07:09,390 --> 01:07:05,650 resembles the something of a volcanic 1521 01:07:12,300 --> 01:07:09,400 rock mixed with molten metal and 1522 01:07:15,920 --> 01:07:12,310 different sorts of items and even molten 1523 01:07:19,920 --> 01:07:15,930 concrete that set the museum if I'm not 1524 01:07:21,150 --> 01:07:19,930 yes yes I think all the meteorite but if 1525 01:07:25,710 --> 01:07:21,160 you look at that there's actually bits 1526 01:07:28,740 --> 01:07:25,720 of paper in it paper in it yeah really 1527 01:07:30,540 --> 01:07:28,750 yes I have to check that out so really 1528 01:07:33,750 --> 01:07:30,550 what that is it's a it's a compressed 1529 01:07:36,870 --> 01:07:33,760 chunk of the building when the building 1530 01:07:39,210 --> 01:07:36,880 fell some parts of it were in regions 1531 01:07:41,130 --> 01:07:39,220 where they had thousands of tons of 1532 01:07:42,780 --> 01:07:41,140 stuff directly pressing down on them 1533 01:07:46,050 --> 01:07:42,790 obviously cuz they were at the bottom of 1534 01:07:48,350 --> 01:07:46,060 the pile and they were in a fire region 1535 01:07:51,210 --> 01:07:48,360 so bits of them got scorched or whatever 1536 01:07:53,490 --> 01:07:51,220 but if you look at the thing you 1537 01:07:54,900 --> 01:07:53,500 referring to the meteorite you see it's 1538 01:07:57,240 --> 01:07:54,910 got all these bits of iron and steel 1539 01:07:59,460 --> 01:07:57,250 coming out of it which are not molten 1540 01:08:01,820 --> 01:07:59,470 they're just regular steel then it's got 1541 01:08:03,960 --> 01:08:01,830 concrete which is the center just 1542 01:08:06,300 --> 01:08:03,970 compacted concrete and you've got this 1543 01:08:07,890 --> 01:08:06,310 some burn marks on it and if you look 1544 01:08:10,250 --> 01:08:07,900 very closely you can see they're a bits 1545 01:08:13,380 --> 01:08:10,260 of paper with visible writing on them 1546 01:08:15,410 --> 01:08:13,390 paper inside the meteorite Rock I'm 1547 01:08:17,340 --> 01:08:15,420 going to write that down and actually 1548 01:08:23,430 --> 01:08:17,350 check that out because that's 1549 01:08:25,349 --> 01:08:23,440 interesting debunk it you've been 1550 01:08:28,980 --> 01:08:25,359 listening to tales from the rabbit hole 1551 01:08:31,530 --> 01:08:28,990 I'm your host Mike West and my guest 1552 01:08:33,540 --> 01:08:31,540 today was ste Anne Arneson this episode 1553 01:08:37,980 --> 01:08:33,550 ended a little abruptly because I 1554 01:08:40,410 --> 01:08:37,990 excised it from a larger episode which 1555 01:08:42,599 --> 01:08:40,420 you can listen to and episode 3 if you 1556 01:08:46,889 --> 01:08:42,609 missed that one very interesting stuff